Children's friends not handling this very well at all!

[saltire]

Not sure how to write this down, probably make myself sound like a really crap parent. We live in a quiet street, which has a park at the bottom of it. All the kids play there, although there is only 5 kids in the street the same age as DS's. One of them is 9. He lived with his parents in a place where he was the only child there, and so got spoiled.
However, my DH and I don't like him, he lies, and is ver rude to older people and has no respect for anyone's property. He was in one day whilst DS1 was playing on the CBBC website and i heard him telling DS to type "big boobs" into the search engine. When i confronted him, he stood there and blatanlty denied it, saying it was DS, even though i had heard him saying it. He was in playing one day and had DS's action man toys pretending they were having gay sex!
He just won't take the hint that we don't want DS's to play with him. Last night, DH took the boys down to the local football pitch, and this boy followed them, telling Dh that "I'm allowed wherever i like". If i go to the park with Ds's and mindees he follows us. Things came to a head last week when an angry father appeared at our door, saying that DS1 had punctured his girls bike tyres with an arrow from a blow pipe! I told him we didn't have a blow pipe, and didn't know what he was on about. Turns out that htis other child had punctured the girls tyres with a long wooden arrow with a meatal spear on the end, and had blamed my DS. Ds asssures us he didn't do it, and i believe him! This other boys mum though is convinced that her Ds did 1 tyre and mine did the other. All the neighbours think this as well!
What's bothering me is that DS is very easily encouraged to do things, and i'm worried that he will start to get reputation as little b*er like this other boy has. We don't want to stop DS from going out to play, and its very difficult for him to avoid this child. He just seems to have no concept of whats right , how to behave etc. His mum says its because he was the only child where they used to live that he doesn't know how to socially interact with other children!
I'm sorry this is so long but as i said i don't want DS to get a reputation as a naughty child and a liar like this boys has and i'm just not handling it very well.

Obviously you have to stop him mixing with this boy. im not sure how tbh, if the lad follows you everywhere.....unless you are rude to him, that may work, and when his mum asks what you said.........deny it! seems to work for him!

Carly, believe me i have tried rude - to the point of ignorance with this child, but he just doesn't get the hint.
We are all off to the bottle bank, intending to take DS new football and have a game, but he is hanging around outside. Obviously i cannot ban him from public places. I have tried telling DS not to play with him, and if he does naughty things to walk away, but he follows DS around everywhere.
The other night, this boy was playing with another boy, at a place where teenagers hang around. He was shouting......., well i can't print here what he was shouting, but they were sexually graphic comments to a group of 18 year old girls. When i confronted him, he denied it, and said it was another child, Even when i mentioned to his mum about the language he was using, he told he he never said it. He seems to be a compulsive liar!

Can you ASBO a 9 year old?? So sorry that you are having to deal with such an awful little boy. Urgh - makes me so angry - doesn't his mother discipline him?

given the things he is acting out / shouting at nine years old, perhaps you would be well placed to have a word with SS or at the very least the school?

does your ds like him? if he does can you use things you do have influence over to influence the things you seemingly do not? What I mean is can you limit your ds's exposure to him by saying "I know I can't stop you coming to the park at the same time as us but if you do follow us you will not be allowed to come and play at our house this week, if you leave us to have some time together as a family then you can come and play for a couple of hours on Thursday" This kid sounds awful and I have no idea if this would have any impact on him, but it might give you a way of limiting ds's exposure to him to your house, where your rules apply. And once in your house you can be a strict as you like - you can say that you don;t care who suggested typing big boobies into google (or whatever other dreadful things he initiates) but that if it gets suggested by either of them he will be going home

Oh believe me peachy he has shouted a lot worse than that. My DS came in last week and asked what a w*er was, cos this child had told him. What also worried me, was the fact that this child was running round with this arrow. now i had seen it, it was a short, thin wooden thing with a very sharp point on the end, which would have done serious damage if it stabbed someone. When i mentioned it to his mother she said
"we have them hanging up in the hall, and he just takes them". my response was"Well move them then"!. He has also taken her lighter and tried to set fire to bushes at the park, to the new swings, and there is a small wooded area across form the park and he tried to set fire to that - not a good move in this heat.
The father, like all families round about, is military and currently on a six-monther in Iraq. Which i think is adding to the child's general behaviour!
Also, hat, i have been blatantly rude to this child, even telling him we didn't want him around and he just wouldn't go! So trying to reason with him won't work i'm afraid.
As to whether my DS likes him, i'm not sure, i think its more a case of the child being there when they are all playing together.

Well if he is that bad then he obviously has genuine problems. I personally would put in a call anonymously to the NSPCC if he is running around with a lighter and making all these sexual statements- both indicators of abuse. Think you need to keep away from your son, but that there is another issue here also and he mustn't be just left like that.

TBH i don't think there is abuse going on - he is a big (as in heavy) child and his mum has told me that he hits her. She also told me that if she's lucky, he's alseep by 11pm! On a school night. And she says she has often got up for the loo in the middle of the night and found him downstairs watching god knows what on SKY!
I honestly don't think there is abuse going on. I just think, well i don't know what to think, really. I know there are a lot of threads with people commenting on not judging others, but if i was having that many problems with a child i personally, would seek help.
The father, as i said is away at the minute and he is a bit ( don't want to offend any army people here at all) but he is what i would call "old school" army. I was in the section bar with DH, the kids and several other wives and kids. He came up to me and said hello. When i asked him why he hadn't told his wife to come down for a drink, he looked at me and said
"Women and the military don't mix. They should not even be allowed on base! You shouldn't be here, your DH works hard and needs time away from you. You should be at home getting his dinner ready" Believe me, he was deadly serious. I think he would be the kind to sweep a behaviour problem under the carpet, rather than confront it. IYSWIM

TBH a lot of the behaviour (not the sexual stuff fortunately) is bang on identical to my son who has SN- things like following poeple around. Sam has Aspergers, if this poor lad does have something like that then I hope to goodness he gets help soon. Is there an army welfare oficer or similar you could talk to? Don't know much about the forces set up I am afraid

From what you have posted Saltire I would say that this child is appears to be neglected rather than abused.

He does not seem to have a clear idea of where the acceptable boundaries are and how to behave in a normal fashion. Most children who are properly cared for do not stay up till all hours watching god knows what, nor do they strike their parents.

If the father is often away on a tour of duty and the mother is obviousley not guiding and discipling the child then I think that social services/nspcc/gp/school needs to be asked to take a more active role in getting him some help before he hurts someone.

Saltire, you poor thing - what a horrible situation. personally I think his behaviour is more likely to stem from neglect than abuse and as someone else said he may even have some form of special need which means he cannot 'get' the normal boundaries.

Is it mainly the park that is the meeting point for you/DS and this boy?

No sparkle, he often knocks on the door, and says "Can i come in and play with X". I always tell my DS he is at the door, but when i turn my back, he's there, inside the house. If i say
"we are going to the shop" he will just come with us, usually on his bike. What if something happens to him, like he falls off onto the road? One time the DS's, mindees and myself were at the park, with him, having tagged along. He started swearing at these smaller kids, and hitting them. I then had to tell him to stop "No" was the response i got. We ended up leaving the park, even though he wasn't my responsibility, i'm sure the other mothers there thought he was!
Other times he will appear in the wood if Ds's and myself are out with the dogs, or at the park. He plays at the park at the bottom of the road , and it's there that most of the sexual words, swearing, lighting things etc seem to take place. I live in a really safe neighbourhood, all the kids know everyone on the street, etc, so the kids, although not in ym sight are perfectly safe at the park - unless this child is around.
I must admit it did cross my mind that he has some form of SN, but not knowing anything about it, i can't say.

well, I think if it was me I would stop my DS playing with him, as it has resulted in your DS being implicated in some pretty silly, dangerous behaviour - s your DS gets older this gets more serious for him iykwim - you don't want him to get known as a boy who does this sort of thing, of course.

I would be upfront with the mum, tell her what you are going to do - perhaps just say that you feel they get silly when they are together so you want to stop it. Tell the boy the next time you see him, and just don't answer the door to him. I'm afraid it's what I would do, though it seems harsh. He must know that he can't come into your space any more. Obviously I know that if he follows you outside, this is harder to deal with; but if you are strong and consistent and do not allow yourself or DS to get into games or conversation with him, he WILL eventually find people who 'give' him a bit more.

I would do this for your DS so that he can steer clear of trouble. Hope this boy doesn't have some form of SN as this makes it much harder on you but by the same token unless you feel you can have some effect on this boy's behaviour for the better, then you are doing him no favours by letting him 'plague' you; at least this way he is getting a boundary ofsorts imposed, doesn't sound like he get much of this at home, poor lad.

it concerns me thata child of 9 would use language that you desrcibe and act out such acts.

i dontthink it appropriate behaviour, yes most 9 year olds would know rude words but knowing is different to useing.

i would have a word with his parents and see what homelife is like then perhaps contact SS anon.
As for the tyre..i would concede and pay for one tyre.
its best in the long run to not fall out woth your neighbours over this,.

Just typing down initial thoughts, I think if it was me I would call social services and tell them what you have said to us, maybe just go in with the approach that you need advice, dont want to get anyone in trouble, does this boy need some medical help - those sort of questions. Or maybe talk to your healthvisitor, or call up an organisation like Homestart, I volunteered for Homestart for a while and we helped parents with children under 5 but they certainly would be able to give you advice, and have contacts.

This most be a nightmare for you, where I live it is difficult for me to let my 9 year old boy out to play because of a group of kids who cause trouble out in the street (whilst their parents are drinking in the pub ), I tend to fill up his time with swimming, gymnastics, going to my mums garden etc but I appreciate it is difficult to keep them occupied all the time.

Why cant children go out and play safely and happily anymore it makes me really cross.

Saltire - I read this thread earlier and it's been playing on my mind (while doing the ironing) I think what I would do in your situation is go and say to the mother that you are very shocked by the damage the boys (even though you know your's didn't) did to the tyre. You've had time to think about it and you have decided that as a punishment for your DS you are forbidding him to play with her son. This way she will not feel she is being judged but you will have made it clear that you do not believe that this kind of behaviour is acceptable. You can ask her to tell her DS and if he still follows/knocks etc you can then say, sorry you are not to play together. You don't have to set a time limit, but just say 'for the timebeing'. You will also then get an idea of how much your DS actually likes this boy. Also your neighbours will realise that you do not condone the behaviour and in time may well come to their own conclusions about who actually did it.

I know it means accepting that your DS has done something that you feel strongly he hasn't, but it sounds like you're going to have to do this anyway.

It does sound like the boy has some problems, its up to you to decide if you want to get involved in talking to someone about that as other people have suggested, but in the meantime you need him to be distanced from your family.

this kid is teetering on being totally out of control, unless his behaviour gets dealt with soon he's on a road to asbos and worse. could you talk to the mum in a supportive/concerned way? could you persuade her to seek help? can't exactly be fun for her having a 9 year old behave so awfully. could you find out if there are any local parenting classes and then drop hints about them? what about the military - do they have any support for the parents left on their own when spouses are on tour? or is there any confidential help where you could raise your concerns? don't envy you - all sounds awful

glassofwine's idea's pretty good too

hatwoman (sorry was trying to think of something else to call you!) There is support availiable within the welfare set up of RAF (which we are, Army and Navy, however, the person who needs the help has to approach them first, i.e SSAFFA won't get involved if i go to them and say " this is what's happening with neighbour x". Apparently it's something to do with human rights.
When iwas out getting the boys in earlier i was taliking to another mum and she is very friendly with this child's mother, but says that she cringes when the boy comes in the house, as he is the same with her child. I asked her if the mother needs help, and she said "she needs someone to take child x off her hands for a few hours", but in all honesty, who would take him when he carries on as he does.
Right, thanks for your replies, am off to bed, will have think about this whilst unable to sleep cos of the heat