tense 8yo

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My 8yo DD1 seems very tense I think. She's always bitten her nails, and she often hums without noticing that she's doing it.

Today during a rare meal alone with her I noticed that she was jittering and shaking. I asked her why, and she said it was because she was happy. I'd forgotten until she said that, that the exact same thing had happened when we had a meal together alone about a month ago.

Obviously I'll have a go at relaxation techniques and meditation with her, but how much should I worry??

Well....I wouldn't look at her being tense so much...the things you describe can sometimes be markers for Aspergers or for ASD type disorders.

The humming, jittering and finger biting are all like my DD does...the GP I saw about her described them as "Stims" and they're comforting behaviours which some children on the spectrum do when happy or unhappy... and she has been marked out as a possiblity for Aspergers. She's not being assessed at the moment...her behaviours have improved over this last year...she's 9 and in year 5...but she has other things which pointed to a possible Aspergers diagnosis...such as some social difficulties which are now much better.

How's your DD socially?

Oh. Ah, that is very interesting and not what I wanted to hear. I have wondered about Aspergers or dyspraxia with her, but lately she has seemed to be so fine that I thought maybe it was all nonsense. Hm. The SENCO has in the past suggested that we might like to look at getting her assessed but I've been a bit resistant as I'm not sure what the benefit would be. She is doing v well at school and although she isn't amazingly sociable she does have nice friendships and doesn't seem to cause any problems for herself with the other children. I don't know now. What are you doing about your dd?

Well we've decided not to get her assessed for now. She's also doing very well and has some nice friendships though like your DD, she's not the most sociable...but then many people aren't are they If I am honest, DD is very like me...and I tick many of the boxes for Aspergers or even High Functioning Autism and I have managed well....but to an expert I'm an obvious case really...I work in a very specialised and niche area and have some real sensory issues...some noises, words and textures send me into a very uncomfortable state but I taught myself strategies and am married with children and a good career...heck I even have good friends!

Having said that, my teen years were a battlefield....but I am hoping that as my understanding is greater than that of my parents or teachers, I can help her...her teachers are so amazed at my DDs progress because she only arrived in her school in year 3...and for a whole year she was almost mute.

But by dint of some lovely parents who helped her by asking her on playdates, she made friends and her confidence has soared. With my DDs "stimmy" behaviour, I jusst discuss it in the way you do...and I also asked her if she did it at school...of course she doesnt...girls with Aspergers are very good at controlling these things as they know they're not sociablly acceptable.

I don't stop my DD unless she's making sounds which are annoying....I sometimes try to re-direct her energy and that helps.

It's good that you feel you can understand what's going on for your daughter. I don't think I do really, so I worry about how to support her.

How do you redirect her energy? I know the humming thing sounds insignificant but it makes me incredibly tense and she will do it without realising 3 seconds after I've asked her to stop. Argh. And I worry that if she actually is on the spectrum I am probably causing her stress by demanding that she behave in a completely 'normal' way.

She is very well intentioned and can't bear it if she feels she's done wrong, but I do seem to end up yelling at her over all sorts of little things.

Mine does that too....starts again a moment later I mean. I do snap at her sometimes but I use humour too...not poking fun at her so much as pulling a funny face at her to get her to realise what she's doing. As for redirecting her energy, I've found that she's very good at doing minute, fiddly things like sewing by hand and also nail art...so I get her to do that kind of thing and the repetitive nature of them seems to lull her...she also does crosstitch and draws a lot. Does your DD craft at all?

Yes, she loves making paper constructions and doing finger knitting. She's not great at really fiddly stuff though, I think she finds that hard. She could never really manage hama beads at the age when others were obsessive about them. And when she sews she constantly stabs herself and drops the pins everywhere, so it's not the most relaxing! Her coordination isn't very good, and I think she struggles to use left and right together in a useful way.

Oh bother. I don't know how to figure out what's right. I have seen it suggested that things can get harder for Aspergers girls as they get older, so it is a good idea to get an assessment earlier rather than later, esp as it can take ages to get through the system. On the other hand at the moment I really can't see what tangible benefits it would bring to her, and it might just upset her. I don't want to suggest to her that anything is 'wrong' with her.

No I know what you mean....I've approached it over the last year by openly discussing Aspergers and Autism with DD or in front of her...but that's been easy because our friend has a DS who is quite significantly Autistic and at age 3, DD was asking why he couldn't talk. Do you know anyone on the Spectrum? Maybe you could open the doors of it by beginning to talk about these things?

I've never suggested to DD that she might have Aspergers but I think that at least she knows it's not a "bad" thing...it's just a difference...a way of thinking unusually....but that it brings gifts with it.....now if she ever gets assessed she will hopefully have a positive view of it.

I mean we could both be assuming our DDs have this thing when in fact they may simply be quirky....lots of kids have traits but no diagnosis even after assesment because they don't meet all the criteria.

How was your DDs language development? My Dd spoke very early and was extremely articulate...she said her first words at 10 months including animal imitations on command and naming a variety of people and objects and could talk in sentences at 1 and we thought she was gifted! She probably IS gifted in literacy but that's by the by...often Aspergers comes with some language idiosyncrasies.

Yes, my DD was an early talker and was very articulate from a young age. Her use of language is still a bit surprising but less noticeably remarkable I think these days. Though her writing is particularly good and expressive. The school have her down as G&T for literacy and art, and she's in the top maths set.

She runs exceptionally badly and doesn't have much strength or coordination. She doesn't instinctively know what order to do things in - so for instance you'll see her struggling holding a wet towel around herself and trying to brush her teeth, instead of drying herself and then brushing her teeth. When I pointed this out in some exasperation, she burst into tears and said that since no-one had ever explained this to her, it was quite unreasonable to think that she should know.

I think she definitely has aspergers traits, but am not convinced that she would get a diagnosis.

My only real worry is what will happen when she goes to secondary school. Our local comp is ok-ish but I'm not convinced it's right for her. We'll apply to the grammars where I expect she would be surrounded by similar children, but they are super selective so no guarantee she would get in.

... And the only person she knows (not v well) with aspergers is a) a boy and therefore pretty much irrelevant; and b) not having such obvious difficulty that she even knows he has it. Maybe that makes him a good person to discuss with her. Not sure. I definitely messed up a conversation where I tried to explain why it was that a child in her class stole something from her. The child is not well off and has a single mother who doesn't speak great English and seems a bit disconnected. I attempted to get her to understand what might be going on for this girl, and the difference between her and DD's very privileged best friend. The whole conversation went a bit wrong and I ended up panicking that she would say something embarrassing to her best friend about how rich I think she is!

Anyway it made me less confident that I know how to explain delicate things like that to her! I know it's not the same, but you know what I mean...

I think that's fascinating...how similar our DDs are...I wish they did a G&T list in my DDs school as she'd get much more challenging work to do....the bad running also ticks our boxes...my DD runs in the oddest way when she thinks someone is watching...but quite normally otherwise!

What you describe about the towel/toothbrush makes me think more of dyspraxia which is sometimes but not always associated with ASD....lack of coordination is one of the key symptoms as well as sometimes a certain type of clumsiness.

I don't know....I think you should link this conversation into the MN special needs section. There are some very knowledgeable and wise people there...who understand about the difficulty of deciding whether to get a diagnosis or not...for some people it's best whilst others decide not to...

I wonder if they'd like each other if they met! Or maybe they'd both just fail to connect.

Yes I think my DD is a bit dyspraxic. She has always struggled with getting up from the floor, tends to put her hands in front of her and get up leaning over IYSWIM, which I think is a classic sign. But on the other hand she doesn't have a problem with maths or patterns. It's not a strength of hers, but she does seem pretty average in that respect.

She used to flap and stamp when she was excited, but has stopped pretty much now. Sometimes she flaps her hands when very excited and with people she knows very well, but in the main that's stopped. And she is not good at eye contact really. She tends to look as though she's not listening to people when she actually is. Though it's confusing because sometimes she really isn't listening....

So having gone around in circles thinking about her over the years, I now think that she has Aspergers traits and very mild dyspraxia. It's all enough to feel that she's a bit different from most other children, but not enough to mean that she is unhappy or having real difficulties. I imagine a generation ago no-one would have even really thought about it. Maybe that's better.

The only thing about posting in the special needs section is that I know a lot of her behaviour will tick boxes and resonate for people with children who have dyspraxia or Aspergers. So perhaps their responses will be more coloured by this and will create a picture in which she is more affected than she actually is?

I guess the problem is that everyone is unique, even if they do share traits of a syndrome, and so the future is not predictable. It is hard.

I wondered that too Speed

My DD can't touch her toes easily...seems "tight". SHe was born by emergency c section and I've often wondered if the delay affected her...

I try not to go round in circles now because I got VERY stressed about her early on....when I had DD2, who was very different, I began to relax and DD1 began to come on better too.

I know what you mean about posting in SN...and as you say, everyone could be seen to be having traits.

I go by the way my DD is now...she's happy...doing well...and all kids ahve quirks.

Good attitude. I go in cycles of feeling quite relaxed about her and having sudden flurries of anxiety. I've got a quite different DD2, too. Very socially capable and efficient and well organised. Sometimes it really shows up just how different DD1 is, when her 5yo sister can do things she can't.

But yes, like yours, my DD1 is happy and doing well. And quirky. If I could be sure that things would stay this way, I'd be quite content. It's just the scare stories about the teenage years. She can be very tough on herself sometimes. But then the teenage years aren't guaranteed to be easy for anyone I suppose.

\My DD2 is 5 aswell! I think a lot of our worries can probably be put down to having bright, articulate yet sensitive DDs....and if that sounds a bit like showing off to anyone who reads this...well tough! Your DD sounds like an all-rounder which is brilliant. I thought about Grammar but my DD is terrible at maths...and doesn't enjoy it....plus I think she'd get very stressed by cramming.

One thing I have begun to do is allow dd to celebrate her "differences"...she's very non-conformist (again like me) and so I celebrate this so that she feels positive about that edge of her which will never feel like the other kids. For eg...all the kids in her class were asked what their fave bands were and they all said 1Direction and Little Mix and DD said "Blondie" She does like Blondie though and fitting in is not a concern with her...that's good in my book.

She sounds brilliant. Cool kid, I thoroughly approve of her taste.

I don't think my DD actually knows who 1Direction or Little Mix are, so she hasn't been given the full range of choice really, but she is keen on Nick Cave (especially his song about Orpheus going into the underworld... it's pretty dark). And a quirky female ukelele player called Sophie Madeleine. I think we've always celebrated her differences really. Not that there was much of an option. She wants a snake for a pet and her current top interest is archaeology involving human remains. So really celebrating difference feels like a given.

You've prompted me to talk to the SENCO today, who is lovely and full of strategies to make every day life run a bit more smoothly! I've asked her to check in with DD's teacher to see if everything is going OK this year.

That's a good plan...if only to set your mind at ease a bit. You know, Brownies has also really helped my DD socially. She LOVES the order, the rules and the whole dynamic. I actually think Brownies is perfect for girls who are "quirky" because they feel comfy with their "sixes"...knowing "This is my group, it's where I belong and I can't be thrown out" is comfortable for them....also the atmosphere is generally totally supportive and the girls are all told "Be true to yourself" and empowered as females.

Which I like.

We tried Brownies but it was a slightly chaotic group, which really doesn't work for her. The thing she hates most is large disorganised groups of people, so it was a bit of a disaster. And I suggested that she might like to join the Woodcraft Folk but she wasn't keen at all.

Your DD's pack sounds lovely though, that sounds very sweet.

Ah yes, we've been very lucky with the pack...the Owl is also an ex army something or other Is your DD in year 4? My DD hasn't bloomed till this year, year 5.

I have a spectrum boy now 12, we got him diagnosed in year 5. His behaviour was challenging. It was great because I got more understanding, which we have been able to continue into Secondary. One thing that has been good is yoga, he enjoys it, it is not sport but very good for general well being including balance. I think for kids on the spectrum it is very useful.

Good luck your girls sound great.

Yes, she's in Year 4. And really I stopped being quite so worried about her from Year 3, though her teachers do all still describe her as 'eccentric'.

Dededum I thought yoga would be good too, but I can't seem to get her interested really. She likes meditating though... I make her go swimming every week as I want her to at least do one physical activity. I think it's v good for her strength and coordination.