I can't get my 8 year-old to go to bed

[spossy]

I'm brand new to Mumsnet, so please forgive me if I'm not doing this right. Does anyone have any advice about how to persuade an 8 year-old boy to come upstairs to bed each evening?

At the moment, he's allowed to watch TV till 7.15 while we put his younger sister to bed. Then at 7.15 we call him to come upstairs. He's then meant to brush his teeth, get in his pyjamas, we read him a chapter of a book, and he then has 20 minutes of his own reading time.

What actually happens is that at 7.15 every day we call him, he screams and shouts and tells us that on no account is he going to come. We then have a lengthy battle to at the end of which we're all furious and exhausted.

I don't think a simple starchart will work, because when he's buried in the sofa watching TV and he's tired because it's the end of the day, the prospect of getting one star towards a reward isn't as compelling as simply staying put.

Any advice much appreciated!

7.15 is a tricky time as it will be halfway through a programme. I'd make it 7 or half past. Give a 10 then a five minute warning then go and turn it off, take the remote or cable if you need to so it can't go back on and there's no chance of watching anymore. No story if he kicks off, but let him read to himself if he wants. Clean teeth straight after dinner so if he huffs off to bed it won't matter

Always let them finish the program (or there is not point) warn him in advance, if he kick off no TV for the next day, and stick to it.

My DS1 is 8 and if he did this I'd say if you carryon like that you will go straight to bed with no story or reading and no TV tomorrow night. And I'd make sure I stuck to it. He's old enough to know how to behave

In fact he always watches stuff on iPlayer or DVD so that's not an issue in itself, but I think you're right that the fact it's always the middle of a programme is large part of the problem. Maybe we need to discuss with him in advance what he has time to watch. Like the earlier teeth idea. Thank you!

We take both of ours upstairs at the same time. While one is getting bathed/showers/brushed, the other one is getting undressed, reading a book, or whatever. Then we swap. The eldest is allowed to come back downstairs for another 30minutes (wearing pjs) after the youngest goes to bed.

Whenever, if the DCs are watching TV and I need them to go somewhere or do something, I always say " after .... program ends we need to xxxx", my thinking is that I hate it when I am watching something and I need to stop halfway through, so it must be the same for children.

FunnysInLaJardin I'm sure you're right, but he is a very, very obstinate child and capable of arguing every night whatever the consequences had been the previous time.

Timetoask, when your older one has had the extra 30 minutes, does he/she come back up without any fuss?

Like Funnys, I would have no patience for this at all. I would make it very clear that watching tv is a priviledge, not a right, and I would make him get ready for bed at the same time as his sister for a couple of days. I would then get him to propose a new bedtime regime, with appropriate sanctions if he doesn't adhere to it.

However, my other thought is that it may be attention seeking behaviour. So, could he maybe get ready for bed at the same time as his sister, and then have half an hour watching television with you? My 8yo really likes it if he gets to watch something with me after DS2 is in bed (doesn't happen often as they need roughly the same amount of sleep).

Cornflakegirl, thank you. I think that the notion that it's not a right is a valuable one for us to get across.

Out of interest, once he is upstairs does he actually sleep fairly soon after? If he's not tired then it could be that causing trouble as well as the desire to keep watching TV to the end of the program.

My DD1 is also 8, we had a huge amount of trouble and angst a couple of years ago as she simply does not sleep (rarely before 10/10.30 at any rate), so what with being not in the slightest bit tired she used to kick off fairly badly about bed times. We've adjusted things now and everything works pretty well and calmly. All 3 children have supper at around 6pm ish and then I take the younger ones up to bed. She stays up - but no TV or computer. Often she will finish her homework at that time (having negotiated to watch TV before supper on the basis that she will do the required homework / piano practice after), or just fiddle around reading drawing etc, but nothing very interesting - ie once I take the little ones up she has to make her own entertainment. We send her up at 8pm and she does her own bath bed with minimal (if any) supervision and then it's supposed to be lights off at 9pm - but I know she has a torch under the pillow and kind of turn a blind eye, so long as she is calm and quiet and in bed as I'm well aware that she DOES NOT SLEEP.

One way or another you need to be strict and implacable (and unemotional) about your rules. So when the program ends he goes up stairs, no discussion, no response to his arguing no engagement with his fury and no getting angry yourself (or at least not letting him see it). If you are strict and unflappable after a while he will get used to it - that was our experience anyway. DD is pretty good now and goes up at 8pm with minimal fuss.

NellyTheElephant, thank you for these tips. The problem with the strict, implacable and unemotional approach (all of which makes total and utter sense) is that he's quite capable of hitting or kicking us as part of the process of refusing to go upstairs. (This is a problem that we're addressing actively, but I won't get into that here.) So it can be (very) hard to remain detached.

So it's very much within our interests to find a non-confrontational approach that works for him as well as it reasonably can. We've come up with this idea:

We've decided to take a step back from controlling each stage of the process. So, we're going to tell him that between 6.30 and 7.30 he can have screen time so long as he also does shower, teeth and pyjamas. Then 7.30-8 is reading time. He has recently received a new watch which should help him keep an eye on this. If he doesn't turn off the TV by 7.30, then none the next night. And we're trying to explain to him that he needs to choose a programme that he won't be halfway through by 7.30 (and to let him finish it after 7.30 if there's only a bit left). We're going to discuss all this with him and alter it if he has any good ideas.