Nursery meeting regarding toddlers 'emotional problems', anyone experience similar?

[Buttonbean2]

My son is 3 years old and attends a nursery 3 days p/w. Upon collecting him tonight, the nursery manager asked if I could come in to have a discussion next week regarding my child's 'difficulty in dealing with things emotionally' . I asked her to clarify and it seems that he is not dealing with consequences of misbehaviour or taking direction. An example she gave was going to the toilet and returning half naked and covering himself with paint instead of returning to paint with the other children . She mentioned that he is very clever and ahead in that respect but is lagging behind in coping emotionally.

She feels that he is having 'meltdowns' when he is told not to do something and is taking a long time to come out of them. The nursery want to discuss with us to ensure we are all on the same page when dealing with his tantrums. I have had concerns at home that he will not take direction if he decides it is something he does not want to do, and he has started biting and hitting me as well.

I have tried time outs, removing from situations, ignoring tantrums, removal of toys, tv.....I am really worried about this meeting on ?Monday!

Has anyone experienced anything similar?

he sounds just like my DS who is 3.6 and attends a preschool five days a week (3 hours a day). He is also supposedly very clever but does tend to have big emotional outbursts. The pre school don't seem overly concerned about it but i've been in to see the teacher a couple of times. He bit a boy at pre school a couple of weeks ago and it was the first time he'd bit another child.

Although he's clever and does seem very ahead in some respects (like numbers, letters etc), he seems to be quite behind emotionally, he didn't really have two year old tantrums and seems to be having them now, i'm hoping everything will fall into line eventually

Most, if not all toddlers have tantrums to some extent and many bite out of frustration.

If at 3 they are sending him off unsupervised halfway through a painting session to go to the toilet on his own, then i'm not suprised that he's coming back half naked and covered in paint - bless.

Agree. Ds is 3 and also has emotional meltdowns. I just thought it was utterly normal

I think it's part personality (he's a big character) and part age.

Unless they have observed other things that they have yet to discuss then I'm confused as to why the need to blest on about emotional problems in what sounds like a typical toddler

I'm that a half naked toddler covered in paint is a cause for concern tbh. Sounds like my dd

Don't be worried about the meeting, the nursery just want to ensure they are supporting you and your DS - it isn't to tell you off.

Odd comment though Sim - of course 3 year olds can go to the toilet on their own

They probably just want to find a strategy that you and they can both use so he has some consistency when he has his meltdowns
Children don't always develop at the same rate in different areas. For example some children can be very advanced at things like riding a bike, kicking a ball but be behind in areas like speaking.
It is very easy for adults to assume that children who are bright and articulate are equally emotionally literate. Very often it isn't the case.

I had a several meetings regarding my toddler and his behaviour regarding severe tantrums (could last 4hrs at least).

I found it helpful as I could go through exactly what I do at home(I was trying out various techniques!) and they could work with me. The staff were then debriefed on a plan of action and we reviewed this weekly, then monthly etc. a few tweaks were required but it made a big difference.

Work with them if you have confidence with the nursery.

Please don't be too worried about the meeting itself. It is good that the nursery is being quick to act and bringing you on board so that you can all work together to help your child develop the skills he needs.

Try and view the meeting in this positive light- it is not about blame, or pointing the finger. It is about discussing the behaviour that you observe and what the nursery observes. You might observe different things- that is normal, home is always different to nursery!

A little bit of time will be spent trying to think of potential explanations, but ideally most time will focus on agreeing some strategies to try and deciding whether you (& or the nursery) might need any extra intervention/support.

To help you prepare- consider first whether any of these issues might be a factor :

• Changes- new baby, house, family situation (including illness of anyone important etc...)
• Health- any infection or medical consideration. Problems with ears are a common issue- glue ear, congestions...
• Speech & language- is his speech clear & understandable? What is his vocabulary like? Does he understand when you ask him to do simple things- what if you ask him follow 2 or 3 step instructions (Take off your shoes, then get a book)
• Siblings/cousins/neighbourhood friends- any role models that might be demonstrating similar behaviour? *TV - what is he watching & for how long? (This effects some children more than others)
• Opportunity for active play- how often is he expected to stay still & quiet? (This question applies to home and nursery) Does he have opportunities for daily gross motor exercise. Is he ever expected to sit still for extended periods of time?
• How structured is the nursery? Do the adult led activities outweigh the child led play?
• Parenting style (Tricky one!) How permissive is your parenting style? How consistent? If he is used to a home situation where he is rarely given boundaries (or threats are regularly made but not followed through) Then adjusting to a nursery with rules will be very hard!

These are just the normal & most common explanations I have come across in all my years. Hope they are of some help :)

Brilliant list TeachersLikeApples.

And just to add my 'toddler' is no longer a toddler and started school this Sept (with files from nursery that needed several wheelbarrows to cart them there). Early days but currently my child is doing amazing.

yes, great post, teacherslikeapples
remember that the nursery will have experienced all this before, and although you know your child best, they can offer excellent advice usually from years of experience and indepth knowledge of child development
and it is a positive that they have invited you in to discuss this in private as opposed to in front of other parents and your child

I think your nursery probably wants to flag it up just incase they are missing the triggers really - and link with you ?
My son used to have huge meltdowns and we often wondered if prematurity was a factor. He's alot better now he's four but he still has the odd one now and again.
The smearing paint thing just sounds like he might have wanted a reaction from his peers? Nothing to worry about - just a character! He'll be making you laugh for years - hope the meeting goes well xxxxx

Valdeeves- I agree that the situation might be amusing in a home situation, especially if you are a family that laughs & mucks around together. I know it would get a few giggles in my house.

It is something else in a group setting- if this behaviour was laughed at, it sets the expectation of what is acceptable behaviour for all the children. So OP can't really dismiss this behaviour- it wouldn't be helpful for working with the nursery to resolve the issues they are having.

Whilst it is not a big deal, the point is that he was asked to be independent in his self care and follow some reasonable requests. A child of this age usually quickly learns that the 'rules' are different at home & nursery, they learn that their teacher has a different sense of humour to Mum & Dad.

If he continues to push this type of boundary, it becomes less of trying to be an entertainer & more intentionally trying to gain negative attention. Either way- the teachers in this situation cannot laugh. They can smile, calmly explain that at nursery we can't play in that way because of x,y,z, then support him to quickly get changed, encouraging him to be independent next time, & ideally giving him an appropriate options for body painting- "Let's set up some finger painting!"

That is in an ideal world of good practice- in reality, if he has disrupted engaged children, caused a nursery worker to leave the activity to deal with mess & have to help him- there is a good chance the instant reaction for many people would be frustration.

Thank you so much for all of your wise words! I am feeling a lot better about the meeting and have been preparing as per the suggestions above! There have been no changes aside from toilet training.

He was 6 weeks preemie so perhaps that is also a factor. The rest of the children he mixes with outside nursery are a mixture of temperaments but he certainly seems to react badly when he is told 'no'.

Our parenting style is to have boundaries, consistencies and routines but also relaxed and flexible if need be. We have a lot of fun together as a family and he has a lot of interaction with family and friends.

I will post an update later tonight, thanks again for all the help!

Hi

Am watching with interest as I have exactly the same meeting - for exactly the same reason - about my DS on Friday with his nursery (preschool) teacher, and the school SENCO .

He also hates to be told "no", digs in his heels and then gets banned from group activities..
Am trying to see it as a consistent strategy finding exercise, but its hard to not take it as a criticism of your parenting.

I hope it went OK for you buttonbean2 - please let us know what the outcome was.

Had the meeting last night and the nursery have asked that we allow him to be observed by an education psychologist. Apparently this person is visiting the nursery anyway and had picked up on a couple of examples of behaviours from my son that she would like to observe further.

Obviously I was shocked to say the least.....and asked for further examples. I was told that he is becoming extremely distressed when told 'no', actual tears and sobbing. Will not sit during story time and will not participate in tidying up. Also, when he goes to the toilet he will not leave until he has pressed the flush repeatedly. Finally, he is becoming extremely distressed if he has a toilet accident and has to put on clothes that are not his.

I was completely taken aback as he has never done any of this at home, out with friends, basically out of nursery. He will have tantrums occasionally when told 'no' but not tears or sobbing and will come out of it fairly quickly. He tidy up his toys at home when I ask and sits every night with his dad for bedtime stories.

We discussed if there was something at nursery upsetting him but he is always happy to go, chats about all his friends and activities and the nursery have said he is very sociable and friendly with a great sense of humour , it is simply that he is not dealing well emotionally to certain situations and it is upsetting for them to see him so upset. The upshot is that the educational psychologist will observe him at nursery so see if she can establish any issues.

One things is that there have been quite a few changes recently.....toilet training, dummy only at night, I have stopped working to be at home in the past month so although he is doing same days at nursery (we have to give a month notice and he will go from 3 to 2 days) so he has a different routine eg my mum used to look after him 2 days a week and know I am, although he still sees her loads. Also, he moved to the pre school room so gone from a small group to a room with 28 children.

Sorry for mammoth post! Anyone else had their child observed and what was the outcome?

Over the years, I have referred many many children to the educational psychologist- it is really really common, you just won't realise it because it is done discretely. Your child won't know they are being observed, and neither will any of the other children or parents.

The good thing about an educational psychologist observing is that their job is to look at how your child is accessing the curriculum. So the feedback will be for the staff (and their practice/strategies/interaction styles etc...) so they understand what he needs in order to be successful, happy & involved. You will of course get the feedback to, but if his main difficulties are at school- it is about them improving & changing their provision.

If the staff need to make improvements in their practice, or the way they set up the room in order for your child to have better access to activities, that is the type of thing she will tell them. For example- She might observe that they could restructure their storytime, ensure that it is after more active play & limited to 10 minutes max. Or she might give them feedback on how they word requests etc... Often these changes can make almost instant improvements in the behaviours you are describing (depending on the situation/child/adults of course!)

Thank you so much teachers, that is really reassuring! The nursery pretty much said the same, but is good to hear this information independently also.

Hi buttonbean2 I'm sure it was a shock to hear the word psychologist, but if you were referred to one, it might take ages, so its good it will happen quickly and hopefully they will find some solutions to make you DS settle. I think this is why my preschool are suggesting the SENCO (not a pyschologist admittedly) will be in our meeting on Friday (even though there is no sign of him having a SEN) - just more experience in knowing what works (or might).

teachers - I found your reply very interesting, particularly the bit about wording requests and improvements in staff practice. Not all children are the same and so some flexibility in approach might help - but I get the impression focus is on getting DS to fit in with them, not them working to understand what he needs. Obviously a setting with 20 other children is so different from home. I hope we find a solution soon - refusing to take off shoes and socks ("NO"!) yesterday caused DS to be excluded from Christmas performance practice in the hall. He is becomming increasingly reluctant to go to school, when he used to love it .

buttonbean2 I hope your DS is more settled at nursery very soon.

MyAngels- any nursery working with the EYFS should be acknowledging the individual differences that children have and accommodating them wherever necessary. Children aren't robots & shouldn't be expected to act like one!

Of course there are certain things that can't be flexible- for safety or practical reasons, but best practice is always trying to find a way to help each child find success & involvement. Can you give a little more detail on what is happening for your little one? It seems harsh that they are 'banning' him from group activities - they should be observing the things he is most interested in & planning a group activity based on those things, so he feels positive about it and included. That way he achieves successful involvement at least once- they can then build on that.

It takes a while to get to know the children in our group, and every group has a slightly different dynamic, so I would be worried about a nursery that wasn't adapting & reflecting on their practice, provision and set-up to make sure it needed the current members of the group.

Sometimes outside advice is needed to observe & highlight what would be good changes to make- so that's why it's great to have an informed SENCO and/or ed psych. There are some difficulties that may involve needing further intervention- but whether it is a SEN, delay, challenge or difficulty- staff will always need to reflect & adapt their provision & practice.

OP my friend's son was recently observed at pre school....he's 3 and a half and had similar style problems as your son. There was no outcome other than the visiting speicalist said that he was obviously bright and going in the right direction educationally...and that he would return in Spring to check this was still the case. He did give the staff some advice on how to make things easier....my friend's son does not like carpet time and won't sit...the specialist advised his own small rug to be placed next to the main rug and it's worked. Other issues were simple toiletting ones which will come right as he gets older it's thought.