Struggling with my 5 yr old DD behaviour any advice?

[woose]

Hi there!!
My DD has always had bad tantrums, ever since the age of 13 months. They used to be awful, maybe having about 4 really bad ones every day, lasting hours, it was exhausting physically and emotionally.

I thought things had got better, but since she has started school in September things have reverted to how they were when she was about 2 1/2. I just don't know what to do.

The main issue is getting ready for school, she just won't do it. She won't get out of bed, then she won't come for breakfast, then she won't get dressed, which is the worst issue really. Last Friday I had to take her kicking and screaming into school in her underwear and she would only get dressed when I told her the head teacher was nearby and I would get her to come over. She got dressed in about 20 seconds!!

My tactics for dealing with this are as follows: Firstly I count to 5 and if I get to 5 then she gets a cross X (we have a reward system which involves ticks for good behaviour and crosses for bad behaviour. 10 ticks mean she can earn a little present. If you get 3 crosses you have a a tick taken away). She will ignore this and doesn't care!! Then I took her favourite toy away, this didn't work either, ultimately I end up trying to dress her myself because we just have to leave the house. I work 3 days a week and my journey to work is at least an hour each way, so I am always in a rush and it is so stressful.

My daughter's default reaction to anything I say is No, even before I have said it. She has always been an angel at school and nursery, nobody ever takes me seriously when I tell them what she is like, they don't believe me as she always seems so quiet and calm at school.

I just don't know what to do because now she has just started fighting back, she is too big now for me to try and attempt to dress her.

Anyone else got a similar issue, I would really appreciate any advice for how to approach this?

Many thanks

Is she getting enough sleep?
Is there a problem at school which has resulted in her not wanting to go?
Is her default 'no' only is respect of school or more generally?

Does the reward system only break down with respect to school? If not then you may want to think about changing it.

As for not getting dressed, I'd have handed her over to her class teacher along with a bag containing her uniform!

I would speak to an 'expert'. I put expert in commas because as the mother of a 5 year old I am pretty sure you know a lot about bringing up children. But if you are enforcing rules eg must get dressed for school, and having to get cross and be firm, it is easier to do that if an 'expert' has advised you to do that. So perhaps visit your GP, or health visitor and ask if there is someone such as a child psychologist who you could discuss this with for some suggestions on how to approach the problem.

I haven't had tantrums this bad to deal with but that is what I would do.

Poor you she does sound v difficult! Just a few practical suggestions...
Would an instant reward work in the morning, 15 mins of a fav programme on TV/ipad if she is dressed and had breakfast by a certain time?

Can you do an earlier bedtime, as she is obviously tired?

Talk about the issues with her and ask for some of her suggestions (brainstorm together) - she might be more cooperative if she has some say/power over things.

Get her to layout her clothes in the evening on the floor ('a flat man') so that she knows what she is wearing.

Let her choose a special breakfast?

The reward system seems a little complicated for a 5 yr old.

How about a treat at the end of the week/month (cinema trip) if she does what she needs to every morning?

A lot of it sounds like she is looking for attention, eg I won't get out of bed, mummy will have to come and get me, I won't eat breakfast, mummy will have to talk me into it etc.

I would stop doing as much for her, so she can see the natural consequences of her actions eg being hungry, being late for school. Try nagging less and see what she does?

Hope the tantrums stop they sound exhausting.

Good luck!

Hi everyone

Thank you very much for your responses. I didn't get chance to respond yesterday as my internet access seemed to die!!

I think the suggestions you make are very helpful. A few things we do already, for example laying the clothes out the night before does help, we call it a 'little lady' and she likes that!

I really like the idea of a 'brainstorming session'. Then if she feels she has made the decision then she may feel more in control.

She is really tired at the moment and I think it is all worse because of this. She has an older brother and so she tends to go to bed a bit later with him so I expect she is not getting enough sleep. Also, I need to be up really early on the days I work, so she is just not ready to wake up yet.

I think you are right about the reward system too. My DH thinks its great, but I too think its a little complicated.

Interestingly, yesterday was a very bad morning and I ended up taking her favourite toy away. Just before bed last night I said to her if she was very well behaved this morning and got dressed nicely then she could have her toy back. She was very good this morning, so the incentive thing did work this time. Perhaps I will try more of this.

Thanks xx

Have you tried a very strictly followed reward/ chart system with a reward for an agreed number of stars for something she really really wants? It's working with dd who is also close in age to yours.

I did think taking her to school in her underwear is quite humiliating though. It's like something out of a nightmare IMO.

My dd is also 5 but summer born so in y1. She also has epic tantrums over tiny things where she loses all control and ends up hysterical. If you find something that works, please do come back and post as I have no idea how to deal with her and feel like I am walking on eggshells.

I have a DS similar to this. He was 4 in the summer so just started reception class. He is mostly good at school (he wasn't so much at nursery) but at home he can be a nightmare.
Kicking & hitting me, throwing toys & just generally very rude & angry. I've tried so many things like reward charts, sending to his room, taking away toys etc. reward charts do work but I find I can only use to help stop one specific behaviour rather than a bit of everything.
I found myself constantly telling him off & so decided to do the pebbles in a jar reward. I have tried this before but did not work as I made it too complicated.
This time however it has. I have a plastic pint glass (all I cld find!) & some glass pebble things. We agree on a number of pebbles he needs to get & what the treat will be first.
We give one pebble for everything he does that is good so that we focus on good behaviour rather than bad.
So one for getting ready for school nicely, one for walking to school with no whining & back again, eating dinner nicely, being kind to me/little brother, having a bath with no fuss etc etc. when he gets 20 he can have his lolly, chocolate bar or whatever small treat he's chosen.
You could set a number of pebbles to get per day although I found this not to be so effective.
Make sure you give the pebbles as soon as you can & if you forget tell them to remind you when home, they love the responsibility.
My DS has really improved so no pebble jar needed at present but I'm sure it'll be back after half term!!!
Good luck x

If incentives work - it's fixable, 100%.
And the fact she is good at school means that she KNOWS! The first thing I would do is sort out her lack of sleep, this will make a huge difference - and then look at what she is eating. My eldest son was very affected by his food intake at that age, but it didn't make any difference to my others. I had to cut out anything with sugar and colourings in (sugary drinks are obvious, but even prawn crackers sent him potty). Maybe a food diary might help and have a good look at the labels to see what additives are being used. I used to work in a behavioural unit and it's the first two things we would address.
After all that you are back to the old praise the good behaviour and ignore the bad, always follow through on any threats and make sure she is getting enough 1-1 time with you so she has an opportunity for a 'chat' if something is bothering her. Keep your cool and be consistent.
Good luck

My DD (5) also has massive tantrums. Sleep is a massive factor for her. The other method I've used that worked for her were to tell both DDs (the night before wnd first thing) that I wasn't nagging that morning only counting down. I give them clear list of things to do: get dressed, eat breakfast, teeth, shoes and coats.

I then quietly remind them of the time left and the next thing to do "30 minutes til it's time to leave, have you had breakfast?"

I try and do this every 5 mins. I try and keep my voice very low key. Works some days and we have a (surprise) treat in the car for the morning running smoothly. Not to be tried on days you are late up though!

Oh sympathies, my almost 5 dd is like this often too. Her behaviour definitely gets worse as the day goes on, when she is over excited/ over stimulated. Articulating expectations works somewhat. Ignoring the yelling works somewhat. She too doesn't want to get up on cold dark mornings (who does?) so we give her 10 mins in bed and tell her when she needs to come down. She isn't too bad in the mornings, but I've found that reward charts etc often get horribly difficult with children like these who seem to go out of their way to get into trouble. So it's like being a theologian trying to decide (on the hoof) which misdemeanour counts and which one doesn't. So we have simplified ours into: hitting (instant time out), not doing as told by third request (loss of smiley face), cheek/back chat/trying to prolong discussion ("but I was just...") warning. Hoping to reduce number of requests to two.

Day starts with 3 smiley faces in the bank, and they get added for good behaviour, listening, speedy compliance, being nice to sister etc. a week full of smiley faces = treat of some kind! usually a trip. But never food, although I do sometimes withdraw treat food for bad behaviour. I do sometimes wish that every request didn't have to be accompanied by a threat, but there you go.

Lack of sleep a massive factor here too, and probably crap food too. My dd needs a lot of physical activity, very clear boundaries, good follow through (my weakness). It's exhausting (dd2 not like this at all), but on the up side she is bright, good at reasoning (usually in relation to pointless issues, but hey), tough, independent minded, resilient and able to think for herself.