DS 2.3yo being horrible to daddy

[sleepcrisis]

Hi, I'm just looking for some advice really.

DS is generally know by all as a very well behaved, good natured and sociable little boy. Never pushes, snatches etc. Obviously we have our moments but he's pretty good at accepting negotiation or distraction as a way out of his bad moments - eg yes you can watch beebies as long as you stop whinging and put all your toys away first, and he usually complies.

I haven't yet used time out etc despite all my friends doing so for things I choose to ignore eg playing with a ball inside (although I don't let him throw it around!) I have tended to pick my battles and ignore questionable behaviour.

But recently he has been really horrible to DH and we don't know how to deal with it. He's totally fine with him at weekends when he gets long stretches of time together, the problem is in the evenings when DH gets home from work. He comes in just before bath time, DS tries to push him away, shouts no! go away! when DH tries to say hello. He won't let him touch him, won't let him lift him into the bath etc. Spends the whole time shouting 'mummy do it mummy do it' and can get really upset and hysterical over it. He's often the same in the mornings when we are geting ready, he just wants me.

My current tactic is to walk away and say I'm not going to do what he wants until he apologises to daddy with 'sorry' and a hug. He usually does it but only after quite a long stretch of tantrumming/running around shouting/ hyper squealy behaviour. He's obv shattered at the end of the day which makes it worse. Sometimes after asking him to say sorry he just gets worse, more and more cheeky and rude.

Would you introduce a time out for this? One of the reasons I haven't so far is because it just adds more time onto an already stressful bedtime. By that time I just want lights out with the minimum fuss. If not time out then how would you handle it? Last night I tried calm talking, explaining that its not nice when other boys push him around at playgroup etc and so its not nice for him to do the same to daddy. It didnt work - this morning when DH went in to get him out of his cot we had an almighty tantrum because it wasn't me who went in to him.

If I leave the house just before bath time, before all the fuss has started, he is totally fine with DH doing bed and bath. All the fuss seems to be for my benefit as well as DHs. Doesn't explain the mornings though.

THanks in advance

Toddlers do have a tendency to panic during change - so Daddy coming home and wanting to do things with him may make him a little unsettled. It's not necessarily a slur on anything your husband is doing. It's just him not being able to get his head around what will happen next = panic and behaviour.

It seems that if you are in the background - he would prefer you to do things - because he is use to the way you do things. You have said that when you are unavailable/out he better adjusts to a change to his routine. I wonder if on these occasions you have explained the change that is about to happen and what to expect.

Many children of that age do not really understand what 'sorry' means - apart from it calms things down. Little brains are not geared up to empathise with others for another at least 3 years yet (look up Infant Egocentrism). But it is good that you are starting the process of discussing other people's feelings with him.

I do think you need to let him know that behaving badly does not get your attention. I think you need to say to him very firmly (but quietly) that 'Daddy will be doing... with you tonight. I will not be taking over from him - even if you make noise. You are safe with daddy and he will do a good job' (or words to that effect). Then resist any urge to take over. It's a tough one and is going to pull against your heartstrings - but tell yourself that you are creating a longer-term environment where your toddler can access support from both you and your husband. Wouldn't it be nice to put your feet up more?

I think it's seperation anxiety. I think at that age, when a parent leaves for the day, the toddler feels some anxiety. Combine the anxiety and tiredness at the end of the day and you have a creshendo effect. The toddler doesn't really know how to deal with their emotions. Just keep offering love and remember your ds is tired and not really sure how to respond when Daddy comes back (after abandoning him for the day! drama queens). The toddler feels hurt by the abandonment and a little bewildered by their routine being disturned especially when they are tired.

Constant reassurance that he is ok might help. (just my opinion_)

Thanks, both interesting replies. I think you are both right to some extent.

I have been thinking all day and I think this also coincdes with him starting pre school a few weeks ago. He absolutely loves it and has never been upset about going there (twice a week) but I think this 'mummy mummy' stuff has really started since then.

Yes he's definitely better when I explain to him why I'm going somewhere else and daddy's taking over. But its the instinctive reaction when daddy walks though the door that gets me.

This evening daddy didn't get in until we were curled up reading stories, and DS hit the roof! "No daddy no daddy!" I had to keep reiterating that I wasn't going anywhere and daddy just wanted to say goodnight and have a kiss. Eventually he calmed down and did say goodnight very nicely. TBH though, tonight DS was pretty foul tempered despite DH not being around, from around the time DH usually comes in. So perhaps a lot of it is just bad timing and DS is just quite naughty from 6pm onwards. Lots of 'no! no! and refusals from him in that time. Although never for very long. We can always talk him round, but I feel sometimes we shouldn't have to.

I'm wondering if its a phase or developmental thing. My ds is the same age & were experiencing the same thing. Dh has quite a commute, so the 10 mins he gets with ds, reading him a story each night is great for him, but he's being told "No, Mummy story" each night. Luckily he can get a hug & a kiss out of ds, but he basically pushes him from the room!

It breaks my heart but dh takes it in his stride & always puts these things own to a phase.

It probably is. Last week ds was crying for daddy when he wasn't home by bedtime!

Probably should've said, we're just going with it for the moment, but we've planned for me to come home late after work this Friday (pub, yeah!) so Daddy gets Tom-time & Tom gets no choice!

DS1 went through this badly at the same age and I think it was a combination of separation anxiety from me as well as DH - at one stage I ended up saying something along the lines of "you feel sad Daddy's not here more" and it seemed to calm him down.

He was much better when DH took over most morning and evening care when I was pregnant, now DTs have arrived he's rejecting Daddy a bit again but as before it's a combination of wanting more Daddy and not wanting Mummy taken away unexpectedly by crying babies.

Whoever said it's about predictable routine and change was spot on (plus abandonment) but now at 3.5 I'm trying to get him to be a bit more flexible so yes we have to be calm and insistent (sometimes really hard when I feel guilty I can't spend more time with him). DH will also now withdraw entirely if he keeps complaining i.e. no story with Daddy means no story rather than story with Mummy and that's definitely worked (but not appropriate at starting nursery time).

Just to say OP that we go through periods like this. For weeks he'll be fine with DH and then, bang, only mummy will do and he will do anything to get away from DH. I know it really hurts DH, especially as we both work FT but it's me he wants when we come home. I've found that it helps giving him plenty of warning about who is going to do what and when. He argues a bit (he's 3 next month) but then generally happily goes off for bed, milk and a story with DH.

I've noticed that he doesn't like to be rushed into something or 'forced' into doing things. DH can be quite impatient and want to do things quickly and often spontaneously without warning. Clearly there are times when his approach is the best way (i.e when we have to be at work on time in the morning) but evenings are not a great time to use that tactic - DS is tired and just wants to chill out. DH and I have spoken about it and he's getting better at listening to DS's 'moods' but still fails spectacularly on occasion.

If DS is going through a more prolonged phase, i will take more of a back seat and allow them to do things together without me around. I also praise daddy a lot, saying things like "Wow! How clever is your daddy? Look at the amazing train track he just built you!" Keeping things light and fun helps too. When DS kicks off DH tries to turn it into a game and tries to make him laugh - 7 times out of 10 this can work too. But mostly, i just explain that mummy needs to do x, y or z and that daddy will be bathing him and getting him ready for bed, or going out for a walk or whatever. It is hard, but i'm hoping these tactics will pay off eventually.

Essentially i just think that DS and DH are very, very similar and wind each other up because they can both be pretty full on, emotional, strong willed extraverts. I regularly have to remind DH that he is the 43 year old - 40 years DS's senior!

Thanks for the further replies.

I think you're right, it's a combo of separation anxiety from us both.

DH is brilliant at turning a tantrum into a game - hiding behing the door or having silly conversations with the teddies. And DS is definitely more amenable when he has warning or explanation - something that DH isn't great at. Definitely responds to 5 more mins, 2 more mins, 1 more min etc.

He;s actually most horrible to daddy when we don't actually intend for DH to do bedtime. Eg if I'm reading the story and DH just pops his head in to say good night, for example. He really hates the interruption of mummy time. It has to be either one of us, one on one, he doesn't like us sharing tasks. At bath time he wants me there, and is happy for DH to do bath, he just can't handle it if I'm there but daddy is doing the actual bathing.

He's also going through a phase of being massively overtired which isn't helping. Wake up time has gone from after 7am to 6 am just over night and its really effecting his evening moods. Doesn't help.

I also think there is an element of the terrible twos approaching. We've been so lucky until now to have avoided it but I can sense there is definitely some pushing of boundaries going on, some effort to assert his control and a profound realisation that his actions may have an effect on the outcome.

Something else we need to get on top of!

Just to give a different perspective, ds (2.1) does this...to me :( even though I was sahm for 23 months ungrateful sod since I've started work ds has found evenings really difficult and often rejects me, albeit to a lesser extent than your ds, which I do find quite hard to deal with. We had one awful night where ds wouldn't sleep in his bed but didn't want me in bed with him and dh! So I slept on the sofa, feeling pretty rejected. In hindsight I shouldn't have given in, but being pregnant and hormonal doesn't help!

For me, I think ds feels abandoned by me when I go to work and he's angry with me when I come home. Weekends and stretches of time are ok, although the return to work days throws him again for a bit. Your approach so far sounds good and he will pass through this phase soon I'm sure :)

I think it's part developmental and part asserting themselves. My DD (2.1) has been doing this to DH for a month or so - he returns home and wants a cuddle/play etc. All he gets is 'no Daddy, not a Daddy cuddle, Mummy cuddle' 'Daddy cuddle Pippin' (the cat)... Much better when I'm just not around. I think she's pushing her preferences and seeing how much of 'her own way' she can get. Ne real suggestions for help - go to the pub for an hour as soon as your DH gets home??

We have a lot of this. Daddy hasn't been welcome at bedtime for ages, although he's allowed to do bathtime, depending on the little tyrant's mood. Last weekend I went out and bedtime with daddy was completely straightforward and uneventful. Annoying for me and dh that only I can do bedtime if we're both in, but thinking its just a phase; last Sumer ds wouldn't have anything to do with me and daddy was the sun and the moon. They are fickle little blighters(kids that is,not the daddies)

Damn you autocorrect, I know how to spell summer! X