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Can 4/5 year olds really be bullies?

6 replies

Spongingbobsunderpants · 04/10/2013 22:11

I'm getting increasingly concerned about my Ds's friendship with the ds of a friend of mine. They go to the same school and have known each other since before school (about three years now). Ds is very young for his year and the other boy is 5 already.

They have always had a turbulent relationship which has often led to periods of time where me and my friend haven't met up with the kids because it was just too stressful. (DS went through a hitting phase when they were younger, and then my friend's DS seemed to enjoy constantly winding my DS up so my Ds was in tears all the time)

When the two of them were in nursery, ds had lots of other friends and often chose not to play with the other boy saying things like he was 'mean' and that he told Ds he couldn't play with certain toys. I just put it down to normal kids stuff and didn't think much of it. At the end of the summer, we had a playdate with the other boy and it became obvious that my friend's ds is very bright but controlling and my ds seemed so impressed by him that he would do exactly what he said. Ds is not a particularly sheep like character and it did seem rather weird the effect this boy had on him.

Roll on a couple of months and both of them have moved up to reception, leaving some of my ds's younger friends at nursery. Ds comes home telling me that this boy tells him not to play with certain other children, tells him not to 'like' certain other boys and if he does then he won't be his friend etc. I obviously tell ds he can choose to like and play with whomever he chooses and coach him on what to say to the other boy to politely ignore his demands. DS seems happier and comes home later in the week saying he has started playing with a boy new to the class.

Last week, ds tells me that he has stopped playing with this new boy. When I ask why, he says the other boy has told him he's 'not allowed' to play with him anymore.

It all comes to a bit of a head when DS has his belated party at the weekend - the other boy arrives late but refuses to come in, won't join in any of the games and sulks outside, looking in the window watching my ds and the other kids having fun. I ask DS to go and ask him to come in, which in hindsight was not a good idea, as the boy makes unpleasant comments to ds about his dancing, his clothes etc. DS crumples and comes to me in fits of tears. Another mother has to tell me what the other boy said as ds won't tell me. The boy's mum seems completely oblivious to this or so mortified that she pretends it hasn't happened. Ds recovers and has a great party with all his other friends there (lots who are not from his school) but this other boy spent the rest of the time sulking round the side of the room.

I'm not one to get tied in knots about kids' friendships but this one seems different and I hate to use the term but 'bullying' seems to spring to mind. I never thought a boy so young would be capable of such behaviour but I can't think of any other word for it. He is extremely clever and I think he is emotionally very aware of the impact he has on others.

I can't really talk to my friend about her ds as, despite a reasonably long standing friendship ourselves, I think deep down she knows her son's behaviour and doesn't want to fully acknowledge it. She may be a friend but I don't know her well enough to discuss something so personal and it would probably put a nail in the coffin of the friendship. I only ever meet up with her now without the kids as it's just much easier.

We've got the first parents' evening coming up soon so my question, I suppose is, do I broach this with his teachers? And has anyone else had experience of this?

OP posts:
ICameOnTheJitney · 04/10/2013 22:30

My DD is in year one and we've had this since preschool with her "best friend" a similar situation in that the bossy friend is also bright and my DD isn't usually sheep-like or shy or anything.

I told the teacher about this friendship so she could keep an eye out...firstly, separate your friendship with the Mother...and mention the situation at school.

Ask about other boys your DS likes and has a good rapport with and then invite them over to play.

I have encouraged my DD to expand and tell her "Make sure you play with kids you want to...don't let X tell you not to...that's naughty behaviour."

DD would sometimes reply that "She won't be my friend then" and I promised her that she would still like DD...the fact is that the little girl is not a mean kid...she's just insecure and controlling...her parents are divorced and it's affected her badly. I keep inviting other kids over and not this bossy mate because I want the behaviour to change first.

5madthings · 04/10/2013 22:37

i think at this age they are still learning acceptable behaviour andboundaries and social interaction.

i wouldnt say he is a bully but he needs to be taught that his behaviour is not ok. the problem will be that his parents are not stopping him and correcting him.

do speak to the teacher so they can keep an eye and intervene/deal with it.

really his parents should have been stepping in and teachibg him what is and isnt acceotable. young children will often be bossy and self centred etc. its very normal but we teach them to be nice, to share, take turns. if he isnt getting told its not ok he will never learn!

ThisIsMummyPig · 04/10/2013 22:39

My DD is in Y1 and could be Jitney's DDs nemesis.

She is similar to the boy you describe, emotionally aware and manipulative. She doesn't tell her friends who they can and can't play with (as far as I know) but she runs very hot and cold, so sometimes she will play, and sometimes just won't.

I have absolutely no idea how to get her to be nice to other people when I'm not there, and I strongly suspect she is violent (pushing and maybe scratching, not punching or biting) at times. But I'm not there, and I can't deal with it.

She knows how upset I am by it all, and that's why she carries on. Having said that though, she seems happy on her own, and doesn't really care about having friends. Which is lucky really.

optom · 04/10/2013 22:42

Hi there, I'd strongly advise you mention the situation to the teacher as IMO bullying is an issue at this age although, children of this age may not be aware of what the term bullying means. A good teacher will not only help support and protect your childs self esteem should she see this type of behaviour, they would also take the opportunity to help develop the other childs social skills to. This doesn't necessarily mean singling the perpatraitor out but can be addressed as a whole class teaching oppotunity. Also, by making them aware it will take the pressure from you in desling with the other childs parent. If a teacher knows what is going on, they are trained in how best to support parents in taking action for the sake of their own childs development. I hope all turns out well and in the meantime just do your best to strengthen your little ones sense of self and esteem and ultimately that its not their fault a friend may not be treating them well. Remind them that they're friend is still learning to play well to and will make mistakes however, they have the power to help teach they're friend that the behaviour is wrong by telling a teacher or adult.

5madthings · 04/10/2013 22:44

mummypig the key is you are aware, her behavior isn't unusual for her age, I hope the school are dealing with it and keeping you in the loop.

Re you being upset and her reacting to this, that must be hard :( your best bet is be firm and consistent and try not to show her you are upset. Consistency does pay off.

They are learning at this age and its harder for some than others, have you got any support or help?

Op I think inviting other kids round and encouraging and supporting other friendships is a good idea, keep reassuring your boy and DO talk to the teachers.

Spongingbobsunderpants · 04/10/2013 23:49

Thanks for all your replies :)

I'm a working mum and have recently upped my days so I don't have as many opportunities anymore to invite ds's school friends round. I have a long standing arrangement with my old NCT friends and their boys on the day I do have off - we all tried to keep the same day off in the week so we could all still keep contact as they all go to different schools now. Ds is good friends with all those boys so I don't want to cut that line off for meeting up after school.

We tend to keep weekends free for family time, which I think lots of my friends do too, and I don't know the other mums well enough yet to suggest weekend meet ups, however, I do know what you mean about benign social engineering.

I'm definitely going to bring it up in the parents' evening and see what their impression is too.

I do feel for my friend - she is very lovely, but is probably a little on the soft side with her ds. That made things easier when my ds was going through his hitting phase as she was really laid back and non-judgemental about the whole thing (in contrast to some other mothers who were definitely not) when ds lamped her ds, but now it's the flip side, her lack of intervention in his behaviour (I have seen him smack her round the face and do nothing) is indirectly reinforcing it. With hitting, at least it is a physical, obvious behaviour that has visible consequences, but when it is words and attitude, it is harder to tackle and likely to only get worse.

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