what is normal behaviour for an 17month old?

[misdee]

i have a few questions about dd2. she is a lovely little girl, not very affectionate, but will give kisses when she feels like it. she has been sorting shapes/colours for ages, doesnt speak weel (says again, dadda, mummy) but most of the time is pretty basic in her sounds. she throws herself about a fair bit (spent the trip today in the buggy throwing herslef back and forth laughing insanely even when she hit her head on the back bar). people have referred to her as a hurricane as she rarely stops. she doesnt eat well, will have porraige and yoghurt, but will rarely eat much else, altho lately she has gotton better and will feed herself. she doesnt respond straight away to u if talking to her, most of the day she ignores me, i have to catch her attention by waving my hand in her line of vision. she passed her hearing checks so i know its not that. she knows when i mention going out as she will get everyones coat and shoes for them and gives them to the correct people. mention bed and she is traight upstairs, mention a drink she will go to the cup cupboard and get out cups and matching lids. she will spend hours putting things in and out of a box, i got her a puzzle ball thing from ikea recently, she will put in back together in the correct color order instead of randomally like her sister does.
to me she seems bright and just seems to watch and learn rather than risk learning herslef (IYKWIM). she has also started chewing her clothes (yuk) and now everything goes in her mouth. is this right, i thought babies did that earlier.
any info would be great.

she doesnt like to be held really either, made her an easy baby to care for, but then apparently i'm not overly touchey/feely either.

She sounds very clever and fine to me! My dd 6 has only recently started to chew her clothes, only certain ones though, so its never too late to start a bad habit!
Bit odd about you having to catch her attention by waving in front of her, as shes so clever with the shoes and things i would have thought she would know fine what her name was. Is is selective hearing?
Does she hear when you say choccy but not when you say bath?
Other than that id say she sounds fine and very smart!

she doesnt really pay attention to me except if i mention clothes/bath/shoes/going out. could be selctive hearing, could just be her being a stubborn madam. people mention to me she is a 'bit strange' and i dont know what they mean really. her sister (i know i shouldnt compare) was a very quiet child, plodding along slowly, learning slower but getting there in the end. dd2 just seems to pick up everything quickly and is so strange at times. i watch her sometimes and she'll be so engrossed in sorting that she wont notice a thing around her, not even her sister hitting her on the head (it does happen).

oh and if i say bath she is jumping in there b4 i start the taps going. fully clothed or not. i'm just gonna resign myself to the fact she is more like me than anyone ever thought. best get out the hair dye now for her.

Well all i can say is how odd! If either one of my kids hit the other on the head there would then be a big scrap until the bigger girl had won and the little one was crying. Noone gets a free hit in our house! (Id love them not to fight but they do) Wait and see what other current mums of 17months say. My youngest is 3 now, feel a bit out of date!

thats what i mean, she does fight back at times, but if she is sorting, then u can wave a box of smarties under her nose, her sister will hit her on the head, anything, she wont respond. her level of concentration shocks me, she can filter out sounds/distractions if she really wants to finish something. she has never repsonded to sounds properly, hv just said 2nd children do this as there is a lot of background noise, but it is still scary.

I would get her checked out again if i was you. That does sound very strange. No wonder your worried. The HV hasnt seen this though no? They never do!

The behaviour sounds a lot like ds1 at about that age. He was very good at blocking out noises around him. I knew he'd passed his hearing tests but he still seemed deaf. The most memorable occasion was when some little @rse set off a firework about 3ft away from us. Ds1 didn't even flinch. Yet you could rustle a piece of paper and his head would shoot round.

Do you find that she responds a bit better if you say her name first? Even now ds1 tends to 'latch on' to the words he knows and ignores the rest. He often won't realise that you are talking to him.

I saw on the other thread that you were wondering about autism. I know there's a short test you can try from about 18months old. One of the others would probably be able to do a link but it's called the ChAT test (Checklist for Autism in Toddlers, I think). There is no way that ds1 would have passed this, not even at 2.5yrs. It's not a definitive test but it might help to either reassure you or to give you something to show your Health Visitor.

My ds is only a year, but he will sit for ages (probably hours if I let him) and turn a toy over and over looking at it from all angles. Whilst doing this he will not hear or see anyone. Dh can come home from work and be completely ignored - which he finds upsetting, but when ds does finally "see" him ds is so excited. My MIL loves it as she can sit and read a book whilst babysitting, but I feel after 15 minutes of toy turning I should move him onto something else. Should I?

she does get really engrossed in activities. at the drop in group she will spend the whole session at the painting table if i let her. tbh i'm not worried about austism, but sometimes she just seems like she is locking me out and i cant do a thing about it. she has mega tantrums over nothing. she does point (which i hear is a good thing), and will make eye contact if only briefly excpet when trying poke me in the eyes.
she is like your ds bob, when she finally does see someone she gets really excited. i sometimes feel i should try to get her onto something else after she has been sorting for hours but then she will have a major tantrum, throws her self on the floor, feet stamping, hand flapping, hitting me sometimes not worth the black eyes.

i can be saying her name over and over coppertop, and sometimes she still wont respond. but if i turn the bath taps on she is straight to the bathroom.

Sorry, misdee. I think I misread your other thread last night when I thought you were worrying about autism. A lack of sleep does strange things to my brain.

maybe on the spectrum, but then her behaviour isnt consistant enuff, but not autism. sorry for confusing u.

Her behaviour sounds normal. I know a few toddlers of this age because my dd is just turned 19 months, and when she was 3 months old I joined an NCT coffee group with babies the same age. We still go, so she has 4 or 5 peers of a similar age.

Anyway my dd throws spectacular tantrums over nothing (its down to frustration, or being stopped from doing something she wants to do - like pour juice over the kitchen floor for example!), she also blanks me out sometimes if she is absorbed in something. I am sure she is choosing to ignore me because what she is doing is so interesting to her, and she doesn't want to be interrupted. Its probably the same with your dd.

Your dd and mine do very similar things - my dd fetches shoes for me and her daddy when we are going out for example. I've also seen the other young toddlers do this in my NCT group.

My dd still puts the odd thing in her mouth, and particularly likes chewing her coat (like yours chews her clothes)

My dd like yours seems to understand (and follow) fairly complicated instructions etc, and yet her vocablory is not earth shattering (she has a fair number of nouns but doesn't do any more than 2 word phrases).

Do you read much to your dd? - it helps with language development (not that I think you have anything to worry about on that score)

So, I think your dd is fine - just has a strong personality and is a determined little miss! (hence the ignoring you sometimes)

misdee, she also sounds a lot like my ds (now 26 months). He gets very absorbed in the activities that interest him and is able to ignore totally everything else that is going on around him. It is only when I say something that he wants to hear (e.g. `would you like a biscuit' ) that he takes any notice. It is incredibly frustrating! He also is able to say quite a lot but only does so when he really wants to (i.e. he's not a great chatterbox, he only speaks when he has something importatn to say). Console yourself with the thought that she has good powers of concentration.

I know quite a few toddlers the same age as my ds (from antenatal groups/toddler groups) and I would say he is a little bit unusual in his powers of concentration and lack of communicativeness. However, I don't think it's abnormal, just unusual, and it's just a matter of his personality. But then I would think that because he's quite like me in many ways (for instance I can get very absorbed, say, when reading a book and if someone speaks to me I often actually don't hear what they're saying and get accused of ignoring them).

HTH

Hi misdee, my dd is the same age as yours, born on 4th Sept.

She does sound a bit different to your dd in certain ways - she talks a lot (but then we have read her about 10 book a day since she was very small), she is fairly easily distracted, she is big on eye contact and cuddles. I think all of that can be put down to personality and inherited traits though!

But, she does fixate on things. Currently it is water. She gets any kind of receptacle and she will stand by my feet saying "water, water, water" for ages and ages, I fill it, she drinks or drops it and it is straight back for more!

She is only just getting interested in puzzles etc.

She does love putting things in and out of boxes.

All in all they sound pretty similar to me! If you're worried why don't you visit your doctor for a checkup?

Sounds normal to me. My ds (now 2.6) was very similar (still is). He didn't speak at all apart from 'hello' and 'byebye' (not even mummy!!) until he was about 2 - and I read him at least 10 books a day, so don't start feeling guilty about her speech maybe being your fault for not stimulating her enough. He has suddenly (a fortnight ago) started speaking virtually in complete sentances, he was just biding his time. I laughed out loud at the bit about waving your hand in front of her face - that is my ds exactly! Hears 'sweet' or 'biscuit' or 'video' at 100 yards, but ask him if he'd like tea or to put his boots on or to stop doing something and he literally doesn't seem to hear. I do end up kneeling in front of him and waving my hand around until he finally looks at me before being able to get through to him!

If I'm reading and dh talks to me, I literally don't hear him. He finds it frustrating I know, but I do get absorbed. I don't think there's anything wrong with that at all. Being able to stick with a task is a very useful quality in life and a predictor of success. My ds is 2.5 and puts everything in his mouth still. I would suggest that instead of taking her away from an activity (which would make me throw a tantrum TBH!) you might want to gently join in with her - sit and watch close by then maybe play alongside her - eg doing a puzzle with her and talking about what you are doing in simple terms to encourage her to interact more. I do think she sounds terribly clever. My ds talks a lot but has no interest in or aptitude for puzzles at all and would never dream of doing the coat thing - in fact, at 17months it would have taken him about half an hour just to get upstairs, and he couldn't do it and carry something at the same time (still can't really).

i do do activities with her, she finds it hilorious. i also do blnak people out if i'm concetrating (ask mieow) and often have to mentally shake myself to concentrate on someone rather than what i was doing. we do read, well i try and read to her she tries to eat the book. funny little sweet girl.

so i can now reply when someone tells me she isnt 'normal' (whatever the hell that is) that she is just bright!! thanks for putting my mind at rest.

This is all so fascinating. I'm far further down the road from you, my ds is coming up for 5 but I recognise lots of what you say from all of his development, most especially the non-response to name and the absorption (have now learnt the technical term is "hyperfocus" ). If mine and yours are alike, then like Aloha I am sure that what you have is a very clever little girl - but - and I hope you don't mind me saying this - one that you might have to take care to "teach" the sort of social and interactive skills that come more instinctively to others. At the moment I have a 4-yr-old who reads like a 7-yr-old (because books and text are one of his hyperfocus things) but is so utterly oblivious to social cues he is on the SEN register at school. The one thing I wish I'd done is "social stories" (see other threads!) with him, from your dd's age.

I think she sounds tremendously clever. I think the point about 'teaching' her the social skills is a good one - although I wouldn't get hung up on it just yet. You'll probably find that nursery at 3 or whatever will do that for her.

I am now paranoid as dd2 (16 months) is nowhere near as advanced as your dd2!

She sounds lovely x E

She does sound very like ds1. I agree with coppertop about the CHAT. You can find it here and do it yourself. Children should pass the CHAT by 18 months. Don't worry specifically about pouring a cup of tea, any pretend play will do. DS1 failed it and it was the only sign of problems really at that age.

If she passes the CHAT test then I don't think you have anything at all to worry about- it is a pretty good screening test. If she fails the chate then I would go back to your HV and tell her that.

misdee, I think, like the others, your dd sounds very bright. Mine is 16 months, so almost the same age. She does focus intensely on something sometimes and when she does woe betide anyone interrupting her! But she doesn't do it for as long as it sounds your dd does and she only does that sort of play a few short times a day. Up until a month ago she was totally independent, hated cuddles and kisses and didn't like being held, but in the last month has completely changed and so most of the time now she's clamouring around my knees wanting attention and she plays the best and for the longest if I'm with her, even if I'm just sitting next to her while she gets on with sorting etc. all on her own.

I think as she clearly can communicate etc. when she wants to, there can't be anything VERY wrong. And the language thing is fine too as some kids don't really have many words until 2 or more, it's communication and understanding that are important and she seems great with these.

It's easy to worry and compare our little ones, isn't it? My dd, at playgroup, is totally antisocial. She literally turns her back on every other kid there and plays quietly in the corner with the dolls house or farm animals and doesn't even look round when some v. noisy activity is going on behind her. She gets a kind of shy withdrawn look on her face and I sort of understand it meaning that she can't, or doesn't want to handle all that noise (we're v. quiet at home and dp and I are naturally v. shy), and to be honest I know how she feels.

Your dd sounds v. bright and fine to me. If some of the things you describe get out of hand, see a hv or ask for a referral to a behavioural psychologist, but I'm sure you won't need to.

maybe she is a male-brained female. What I mean is her brain works in a more masculine way - very good at concentrating at one thing - ignoring everything else (not so good at multi-tasking).

People often say that little boys don't seem to hear when they are engrosed in something.

Not sure if relevent here -ds1 (diagnosed) still feels less asperger's than ds2 (undiagnosed)- the point i'm making is that 'if' i'm right then i probably am 'lucky' to have 2 parts of the same spectrum- and can see how different they are yet how similar just reinforces how hard a dx can be to either get (I KNOW THAT!!!) or to have accepted (husbands..mafia/MIL and even my own parents)
NOONE can understand how I can say i have 2 autistic children who are so different- it is frustrating.

MISDEE- you'll find over time that hopefully the likely 'problem' will become more obvious- it's hard when they are so young- but brilliant that you are so aware. To me with ds2 i have to accept that i may never get a dx- he's 7- however i will continue to parent him 'the autie way' becasue it works- i will then have to learn to convince his teachers and family that he is not moody and rude- but a child coloured with 'all the colours' in the spectrum!!!!!! (but that they have no name for his particular 'colour' It's a wonderful colour though at times!