DD major tantrums results in her holding her breath (and has passed out) need adivce please

[daddy28]

DD passed out last week from holding her breath due to screaming so much, from DW merely putting some nail clippers away after clipping DD's nails. She has major tantrums all the time when she can't get her own way, and we feel if we don't start to really get on top of this we are going to have a nightmare child on our hands. A lot of the time its down to frustration, but she is also very wilful and will not back down when we have told her no to something. She is quite advanced as well (i think?) She crawled at 5 1/2 mo, walked at 9 mo, is currently 17 mo and has a 28 single word vocabulary alongside being able to say things like "what is it" Where is it" when she sees something new or if she is trying to look for something.

Please can anyone advice how best to deal with tantrums because we are now worried everytime we ignore them that she is going to pass out again but we need to do something before it escalates out of control.

thanks

Sounds like a very intelligent but frustrated child! I am not sure how I would tackle this but apparently I used to do the breath holding as a toddler and one day when I was doing it my aunty threw a cup of cold water on my face . I never did it again! Sorry I can't be of more help!

can't offer advice but she shouldn't hurt herself except by falling over. have heard of other children doing this.

can only add that i also did this as a toddler - as my mum has told me many times. her GP said to her "well what will she do if she does pass out? - breathe of course!" It is hard to ignore a tantrum but with ds it really is the only way to get it to stop.

The only thing that I find that works is to get in there quickly with a distraction as soon as you think shes about to have a tantrum.

If DS is about to have a wobbly its amazing what a "look at that x" can do!

its a tantrum so you need to ignore it. ds2 did this. ignore it walk away. worst that can happen is they faint and breathe again. the more you react or panic to it the more she'll do it. ds2 was also a precocious talker as he was talkingin sentences by a year and a half. its manipulative. ignore it

It's a tantrum and best ignored. The breath-holding/passing out thing is hideous (and apparently I was a master of it as a toddler). The best thing to remember is that your DD can hold her breath only as long as she is conscious - once she passes out her body takes over and she'll quickly recover. Once she does just carry on as usual - no special attention for what was, after all, a pretty spectacular tantrum.

Oh - and I'd say she was a pretty bright little girl too. It might be worth trying to distract her (if she'll let you) when a tantrum like this is in the offing - it won't always work but is worth a try.
She won't come to any harm as a result of these breath-holding attacks (which from my HV experience seem to be the speciality of little girls) - I was apparently a devil for them and have managed to reach age 40 with no apparent effects from them although my hubby might disagree

To me ignoring is the only way. To do anything else would be to succumb to her antics and reinforce the message that having a tantrum gets her some attention. No doubt it will be very difficult and take the patience of a saint but she'll soon learn that it doesn't get her what she wants - no doubt the clever wee mite will come up with a new way to scare you both! It's like controlled crying - eventually the message will sink in. Good luck

This is just a stab, but when dd is crying, if you blow in her face she stops and gasps...It's quite funny. Might help and hope it isn't damaging her (we don't do it very often)

Hi - just saw this thread and wanted to add my sympathies. I posted a while back about an identical problem. My DD (18 mths) starts a tantrum out of nowhere about the most ridiculous things and holds her breath. She did actually seem to pass out once which is when I posted. Had a long (and tearful) conversation with my HV who was wonderfully supportive and gave me lots of good advice. She didn't agree with the ignoring thing for breath holding (which I was actually relieved about). She said to continue to ignore bad behaviour but when she appeared to hold her breath, to pick her up and gently shush her (like you did when she was a tiny baby). Apparently this helps her learn to control her temper. It's her anger and loss of control that's causing it so the best thing you can do is teach her how to stay calm. The way my HV put it was that if she got so angry she couldn't breathe, she would always remember her mummy's calmness and gentleness. I thought it was a wonderful way to handle it and being proactive rather than ignoring worked for me. It may not work for you but maybe give it a try and let us know how you get on...? lots of love and good vibes to you because I know how awful it is xx

www.mumsnet.com/Talk?topicid=8&threadid=174439&stamp=060518180951

Don't know if this will work but here's a link to the thread I started about the same thing. Lots of people gave very good advice as they have done on your thread. Mumsnet magic works again! Hope it all works out for you. Forgot to mention that she hasn't passed out since (phew!) so I guess my HV's strategy works for her! good luck and let us know how you get on xx

My DS1 used to do this....the first time when he was 14mths old. Scared me to death, and friends and family as they witnessed it too. he tantrumed, held his breath, went blue then passed out (just because I walked away to get his sister and dared to leave him with his aunty!). THEN he started breathing again (which is what they do...)

It took me a while, but he was aware that he was getting his own way thro it as I was too scared to induce an attack, and my HV kindly suggested next time just walking away and leave the room.
God, that was sooooo hard.:(

I did it tho (he was nearly four by then, so very aware of the reactions he was getting) and I was worn down by it all, as was nursery too.

I hurd a thud, waited, then he came round screaming in terror as mummy wasn't there, as I normally would have been. I rushed in holding him to calm him but didn't apologize for leaving him, just told him that this came from his tantrum and that he was to stop. (I know I sound harsh, but I was at the end of my tether completely, especially with other stuff going on in the family anyway)

He never once did it again!

I am not saying at all that this is the advice to take now, at the age of 17mths, but when you find yourself reacting to her her, she is obviously bright enough, even now, to know that she is getting a reaction. (my son is very bright. from others I have spoken too, it seems to be the brighter kiddies doing this thro sheer frustration. I may be wrong, I only state in my experience.:))

All I am saying is....you aren't alone in this. After this happened it transpired that this is what my DH's brother did too as a child, and he too was a bright child and frustrated of his limitations. MIL had forgotten how she had dealt with it tho, just that he had grown out of it by the time he started school.

I am sure that there must be advice out there on the intrnet tho, I just am clueless on how to look up and post links.

feel for you tho, as they are scary little monsters sometimes aren't they!!

i have the same problem with my dd, 18 months. she passed out a couple of months ago and i had the phone in my hand and dialled 999! just panicked i spose! my hv told us to either tap her on the back of her legs to shock her back to normal or gently blow on her face. the tapping didn't work but blowing very gently on her face is suprisingly good. she still does it but unless she's really really upset the blowing works!! hope it helps!

Cashncarry's HV's advice sounds really nice & gentle.

thanks so much everyone for your advice, we have both been at home today, we have ignored her everytime she has thrown a tantrum, i guess she has had around 18 tantrums today, ranging from me locking the front door, to closing the baby gate, barnaby bear finished on cbeebies, turning the kitchen tap on..etc they really are this trivial... anyway, both dw and I have stayed within a few metres of her, but didnt make any eye contact, didnt acknowledge her or speak to her - nothing! Over the course of the day i have to say we have already noticed a big improvement on the length that they are lasting. Its very hard leaving her and on around 5 occasions she nearly passed out, but DW couldnt ignore DD on these occasions and picked her up to calm her by just walking around with her, the second she had got her breath we put her down and distracted her.....tantrum over. To be honest we are struggling with leaving her to pass out, because this would have happenend at least 5 times today, if it was only now and then we could probably manage it. Thanks for the advice (and your link to the other thread cashncarry ) We are definately going to start doing the 'shushing' technique from tomorow for the extreme 'no breath' tantrums, and we will continue to ignore all the other tantrums. Wil let you know how we get on over the next few days

On a similar note, how do you deal with tantums when you are out in public, when you can't leave them to thrash it out?

"how do you deal with tantums when you are out in public, when you can't leave them to thrash it out?"

Ignore everyone else around and focus on your child. You'll mostly get looks of sympathy anyway.

Glad to hear you're finding ways of coping daddy 28 - it's going to be a long hard battle for both of us I think! When I'm out and about I generally try to distract her but it doesn't always work I must admit. She had a breath holding tantrum in the library which was soooo embarrassing - I took her out of the buggy, shushed her and let her run about and then I counted down til from three to say it was time to go in the buggy (I also use the counting down technique for coming out of the bath). The problem I find is that there are so many flashpoints and one way doesn't always work. I try ignoring, distracting and shushing in turns and sometimes I have to say I do want to pull my hair out! (DD also does this). Let me know if you find any new techniques and I'll give them a try. I think we must have very gifted highly intelligent DDs

Well, you can leave them to thrash it out. DS tantrums in the street sometimes and I just stand next to him and wait. To the extent I've noticed other people's reactions they've been very sympathetic.

Apparently I used to hold my breath when I had tantrums and was 3yo. The first couple of times really made my mum panic but when she asked a nurse about it she was told not to worry. They said breathing is a natural body function and if you pass out you'll actually start breathing again anyway! Apparently this worked fine with me and once I realised I couldn't get the attention I stopped doing it.
Hopefully your DD is similar to me in this respect but perhaps ask the doctor next time you're there.

just wondered how you are getting on now and if you have had any brake throughs yet.

Also wanted to give my support and encoragement xx

Just a word of encouragement. I was known locally in our street as 'the screamer'. Almost everyone who knew me as a toddler tells me how awful I was - terrible tantrums etc. My mum who is much kinder (being my mum) just says I could be difficult sometimes - in her speak that means I was a nightmare!!.

At 16 on my first Saturday job in a local shop, my boss told me a few weeks after I started that he had thought twice about employing me as he'd known my mum when I was little and had always thought I grow up into an awful child/adult as I seemed so difficult or 'spoilt' as they said in those days. He said it by way of apologising as he thought I'd turned out very well and said he was very pleased he'd offered me the job.

I used to go blue and throw terrible tantrums as a toddler but I was a very easy going older child and teenager. My theory is that children need to rebel at some time and tbh I'd prefer a rebellious toddler to a rebellious teenager . Not all tantrumming toddlers grow up into awful children or adults - honest!!

Grit your teeth and say 'it will pass' 'it will pass'. I wouldn't ignore the breath holding though. I thought the comment about teaching them how to handle anger was very wise. Toddlers generally tantrum through frustration/anger. We need to teach them how to deal with that anger and also to let them know we love them even if they are really angry.

By all means don't give them whatever they are having a tantrum about but do pay her attention and try and calm her down or distract her. If all else fails - accept she is having a tantrum and wait it out.

"children need to rebel at some time and tbh I'd prefer a rebellious toddler to a rebellious teenager" - love this lazycow, this is giving DW and I light at the end of the tunnel

thanks for your concern sweetbean and everyones support and advice. we are continuing as before with ignoring her tantrums unless she is very close to passing out (which she has been on a few occasions) and we will then blow in her face to help her catch her breath and then use the shushing technique which really helps, as by this point she is so distressed i dont think in dd's case it would be beneficial to leave her iykwim. Its definately a frustration related problem though, as now she has learned the word 'this', where she had a major tsntrum before, DW or I will hold her hand get to her level and say to her "what is it" or "show me".... she will then take our hand and then point and say 'this' to whatever it is that she wants, this does elimianate alot of tantums but at the same time will reinforce a few when we persist and say 'no' to something!
Overall though she is definately getting better iam glad to say. I think dw has found it especially hard as in public dw is quite reserved, and all of a sudden she had this little 'being' which is attached to her screaming and making a scene in public etc....i guess we never realized the full extent of what parenting meant!!!! apart from this little side to her i have to say when we take her to bed each night and she waves to us from her cot smiling all these tantrums go out of our mind completely we've had a good day today can you tell !!!!!!!