4 year old boy answering back

[LittleDoe]

DS turned 4 in July. His behaviour, like most kids I guess, goes from good some days to pretty challenging on others... Our discipline with him I think on the whole is okay, we set boundaries, we really try not to shout (although sometimes do), we try to ignore bad behaviour as long as it's not too bad etc.

But the thing that just really really gets to me is the constant answering back if you ask him to stop doing something. He just goes on and on to the point where he is shouting "No Mummy, YOU are naughty" (even if I've not said his behaviour is naughty) or "No Mummy you will go to your room" or "You are not in charge, I am in charge". It's bad enough when he is like that at home but out and about, it's pretty embarrassing and if I saw a child speak like him I would probably think he wasn't very nice! On a lighter note, after I told him off for not sitting nicely to eat his breakfast today, he did mutter through tears today that he was going to turn me into a frog.

The thing is as well is that he just doesn't listen, so normally I start off very gently asking him not to do something but by the third or fourth time I'm a little sterner (still not shouting usually though) and that is when he gets into his answering back "No Mummy YOU are naughty" routine.

He goes to pre-school 2 days a week (we're in Scotland so he doesn't start school until next Aug) and got a good report at the end of the summer term - no behavioural issues, listens well, good concentration etc. I think he is really well behaved there. I guess like most kids he saves his bad behaviour for home.

I just really want some tips on how to deal with the answering back - I was never in a million years allowed to get away with that in my childhood but probably got a smack on the bottom.

ok well first I'd go back to basics with your requests... it can take a while for small kids to actually hear, filter, understand what you're saying.
i've found it can help if you really simplify what you're saying so if for example he is not sitting nicely then instead of saying "ds, you need to sit nicely, you're going to fall off your chair otherwise" just say "sit nicely please"
you might find you also need to remind him what sitting nicely means... ie, not fidgeting, not standing on his chair etc etc
but give him time to absorb it before you say it a second/third time.

if you're having a punishment attached like going to his room or whatever then warn him too. "ds, sit nicely or...."
then if he carries on just do whatever it is you've said is going to happen

the key is trying NOT to get engaged in a verbal battle... you won't win! I find this incredibly hard myself, I really have to force myself not to say anything else and to just carry out whatever I've said will happen

You sound really kind - possibly too much so for your own sanity? I wouldn't get to the 4th time of asking and for me 'being rude to mummy' is a red light offence that lands them in thinking time in their room. My dts are nearly a year older though. Ds went through a phase of 'you are the stupidest mummy in the whole world', when calm i told him he shouldn't say it, not nice, made me feel bad 'and you love mummy don't you' etc etc. have recently extended it to talking about respect but like i said they are older.
When i started thinking time at age 4 they were in it several times a day but now it's once a day at most. I also worked with ds at 4 on what to do if he lost his temper as that was an issue and he went through a short phase of throwing stuff, the first day he didn't throw stuff went like this:
Me: welldone for not losing your temper did you count to ten?
Ds: yes but i was still cross so i carried on and at 37 i stopped feeling cross!

firstly what you describe sounds fairly normal four yr old behaviour. He is pushing boundaries which is a normal phase. I teach 4 yr olds and they do answer back. I agree keep what you say simple and to the point. Tell him what you would like him to do rather than what you don't want eg keep you feet still rather than don't stamp your feet under the table. Agree give him time to process the language. Ignore what you can, praise him when he speaks nicely to you. Don't engage with him when he is saying those rude things. He is cross he has little control of his emotions still and discourse he doesn't mean it. When ds3 was that age he used to do similar. I used to calmly pick him up and put him in the hallway if I couldn't ignore it.

I found on consideration that the reason my ds answered back and got very rude during tellings-off was that he actually cared, whereas my dd is more of a water-off-a-duck's-back who will retain the self control to come up with a charming apology- because she wasn't really that bothered by my reprimand in the first place.

Ds is basically a far more sensitive person, and I have gradually found I get better results with him through treating things a bit more lightly (whereas dd might as well have the full artillery at once).

If your ds starts shouting No, you are NAUGHTY, before you've even told him he is naughty then it sounds like he is overreacting and reading a sharper reprimand into what you said than was actually intended. If you then react angrily, he will take that as a sign that he was right and you really did think he was terribly naughty from the start.

I would try just to stay very calm, stick to your initial point but maybe see if you can infuse a little humour into the situation.

As ds got older, he learnt to do the humour infusing himself and counter everything with a joke. It's basically the same thing, trying to keep himself from getting hurt because he knows he gets terribly hurt by criticism. These days I have to struggle with the opposite: trying to keep a straight face and remember what the initial point was, because he is actually very, very funny. But obviously can't be allowed to get away with murder because he has developed charm.

Eventually, I hope he will get it right.

My DS is 5.5 and still seems to get into a cycle of back chatting or being rude. He'll be good as gold for weeks then will slip - obviously this is connected to something, either tiredness or illness - but it's still highly annoying! I agree that you feel as if you're going back to basics. But if that's what it takes do it. You sound as if you're doing a great job already but what I've found useful is that if DS gets so rude that I feel myself about to explode then I walk away or totally ignore him. I will remind him that when he stops being rude/whinging/back chatting or whatever I will speak to him. He often calms down and apologises!

I remember someone once said you don't have to attend every argument you're invited to which I think is perfect advice in this situation!

This is a timely thread for me, as I have just logged in to vent about my ds, who will be 4 in November.

These last few days it's been "stupid ducky" "stupid machine," then more hurtfully "stupid. little girl" at his sister and " get me dressed stupid smelly mummy".

Dh and I are at odds as to how to deal with it.

Following with interest. DS is clearly advanced as is doing this aged 3.5!