End of tether reached - cannot stop crying - PLEASE HELP ME !!!

[Norah]

Sorry this might be a bit of a long rant - but i am sitting here sobbing huge great sobs with tears rolling down my face - I just cannot cope anymore. I feel like packing a bag and running away !

My dd (only child) is 5.5 - and generally a really sweet thoughtful little girl. But for the last 6 or so weeks she has been a nighmare ! Nothing significant that I am aware of happened then !

First of all her sleep has become really bad - she is waking up every night about 3 hours after she goes to bed. Some nights I am sure this is due to bad dreams and I think she has maybe even done a bit of sleep-walking - she gets out of bed and wanders around whimpering - but those nights she will be put back to bed and go back to sleep relatively calmly. Other nights she is like a mad child - she wakes up crying - always for Daddy and says she wants another cuddle and kiss - but even after she gets them she carries on ranting - she seems fully awake these nights - and then she will shout and scream for well over an hour. Nothing calms her down - she completely loses it. Last night this went on from 11.30 to 1.30 - God only knows what the neighbours must have thought !

Anyway - we've tried start charts, talking to her, even Medised - to no avail. I am out of my depth here - have no idea what to do !

I am so bloody tired now - I've had to phone in sick today as I can't stop crying !

I think I wil make an appointment with he GP - but am not sure that will help really.

The second thing is that her behaviour at home has really deteriorated. She is really good at school and is making great progress - but at home she is so challenging. We have been trying to do the 1-2-3 Magic method, but she just flies into a rage and refuses to go to her bedroom. I have no idea what to do now !

Can anyone suggest anything PLEASE ??

Well the GP is a good idea. If her behavious has changed so drastically there must be some reason for it.

No helpful suggestions I am afraid - but I'm sure someone will have.

you need to tell the gp all that you have put here

it could be night terrors which are extremely hard to deal with and would make her tired in the day so behaviour will slip

you said she is still well behaved at school but they often are even when horrid at home.

sorry, no help really, I feel for you, it sounds very hard to deal with

Thanks - have just made GP appointment for tomorrow morning - also been looking at Millpong website - look great but scared to find out how much they might cost !

Millpong ??? Millpond I meant - sorry !

Right have been reading up on the web - I don't think this is night terrors as she is definitely wide awake and having a tantrum ! Last night we had the full monty - door slamming, toy throwing, screaming, pounding on our door and hers - she was in full tantrum mode !

Possibly she awoke due to nightmare ? But why so angry ?

Also been reading up on ADHD and ADD - she is not good at concentration and does appear to sometimes not hear (GP said not a hearing prob though) - and is quite "flighty" as my mother says ! Am wondering is she is borderline ADD ?

Has anyoen else had this with theirs ? Am I the only one ?

My dd has had phases of night waking/screaming/shouting etc
She is quite prone to sleep walking and I think although she appears awake she is not fully awake...
This was rather a problem when she was 5-- much less so now.

Hi Norah, i can sympaphise with what you are going through although my dd almost 6 has been dx'd with Oppositional defiance disorder possible ADHD and has been a naughty defiant child since the age of 3.

You say this has only been the past 6 weeks???

Maybe, she is going through a bad phase and trying to push you to see where your tolerence levels are.

Nearly all children will go through a stage of defiance and corruption to test the water.

With regards to slepping, have you considered the change in weather, meaning the warmer nights??

It's causing havoc with both my children and the fact that one day it's lovely the next it's freezing doesn't really help.

I use the 123 magic with dd, and it works to some extent although i feel the novelty is wearing very thin IYKWIM.

I would speak to your GP if you are having major concerns, but other than that i would reccomend patience, i know it's hard, but try and let things pan out, just don't give in to her as hard as it sounds.

Good luck.

Butty.xxx

Thanks for the replies ladies !

Butty - is your dd well behaved at school and naughty at home ? I haven't heard of ODD - will go and google it now !

bluejelly - thanks - I keep hoping it's a phase - but am now so knackered and despondent myself that I just can't see an end to it ! If it's night terrors they don't remember it in the morning do they ? DD definitely remembers last nights shenanigans - although cannot explain why she did it ?

Last week dh was away and my friend babysat - dd got up and walked around and my frind put her bcak to bed - but in the morning dd asked me why "X" hadn't babysat after all ? So - clear;ly she didn't remember seeing her that night !

I know - I've got to be calm - but I am still feeling that I just want to run away !

I really do sympathise with you Norah as I went through a very similar thing a year ago when my dd was 4. It carried on for a couple of months I think and during that time my dh, myself and dd all suffered with bad moods, irritability etc - which I believe was all down to lack of sleep.

We became locked in a vicious circle, where dd through lack of sleep would consequently be tired and irritable at school and at home. The tiredness would also adversely affect her behaviour. The night wakings got progressively worse to the point where she was waking up every 2 hours. Tantrums were worse too - especially at night. She would fly into an uncontrable rage over anything - there was no preventing it. I really think she had by this point become so tired letting off steam in her tantrum was her only way of coping.

The only thing that worked in the end was that DH and I came up with a plan to deal with her wakings in a consistent manner. Our first attempts was when she woke up, not speak to her at all and lead her back to bed. However when this didn't work, we resorted to ignoring her completely which meant that she had to calm herself down and put herself back to bed. Although this was incredibly hard it seemed to do the trick as her night wakings were less frequent. We also still kept up star charts to encourage her. Now she rarely wakes up.

sorry haven't read through every post but must say this does sound like night terrors. My niece started having them at 6, stopped now at 9.

They found it happened when she was over tired or her temperature was high due to illness. Got to point though where they were like a habit and carried on almost every night for 2months. Calpol worked sometimes, sometimes not.

She would jump on the bed like a mad woman, then throw things, shout, punch etc etc. It got to the point thought when her parents would see the tell tale signs of its onset ie, jurking in her sleep or calling out and they'd give her calpol which would stop it.

Hope you get it sorted.

does she remember the incidents ?

If not, then they sound like night terrors and all you can do is try and make sure she does not get hurt. Also they seem to be worse when they are overtired.

If she does remember it - then she is awake - you can sit her down sometime when she is calm and ask her what is upsetting her - ask her what is making her feel so angry when she has been asleep. Maybe ask her to draw it if she can't explain it. The key is apparently to get them to talk about what they feel - let them put it in their words.

Norah, you could have been writing about my DD also age 5! She has in the past had hearing probs which seem to be rearing there ugly head again, her bahaviour at home is absolutly terrible, screaming in your face, pinching, slapping, banginfg doors etc, you can see so much fury an anger in her face that it's scary.
Sleeping is also a problem as wakes up very early and in a foul mood because she's tired (buit at least she goes back to sleep reasonably well).

She also seems to have sensory issues iE an not stand to have the seems of socks against her toes, can not sit on her skirts (has to lift them up so she sits directly on the floor, can not wear trousers that are "fitted" Etc, the list goes on and on. Yet at school she's supposedly well behaved - I think (have tried talking to teacher about behaviour, but sometimes it's like talking to a brick wall.

I just wanted you to know that you're not alone wirth your daughters problems but unfortunatly don't have any answers either.

do they not get another set of molars at around this age? could this be waking her, and the whole waking up thing is making her grumpy? No experience of this, just a thought

ooh also remembered something I read somewhere, if you can see when it's about to happen, or it happens at around the same time each night, what about gently rousing her (not necessarily completely waking) but just to break the sleep pattern? Maybe she wakes (or comes near enough to waking to do all this) when he sleep patterns hit a certain shallow point. By bringing her into a lighter sleep half an hour beforehand she may then drift back to deeper sleep an avoid it, so the theory goes.

As I said, no expert here, just remembering something I read and wondering if it's a useful train of thought!

Hi everyone,

Well sometimes she remembers them and sometimes not. Last night she did remember and she was definitely awake - although pretty incoherent and irrational. Last week there were two nights when she didn't remember at all - she is on a star chart and one thing is "not getting up in the night" - and she swore she hadn't - but she had !

I am really thinking that this is a sleep disorder now - and possibly (hopefully) the behaviour is a result of being tired.

I suppose what really worries me is whether there is something sinister behind the night terrors or dreams ? Her teacher doesn't think there is a problem at school - and apart from the problems associated with all this - there are no probs at home !

I really do feel that this has become a habit - and I desperately want to stop it happening.

Last week when dh was away I consciously ran up stairs when I heard the first murmur - and that seemed to stop her going into full tantrum mode. Last night's was the worst one for a week - and not helped by dh yelling at her and shutting both our and her bedroom doors - which she hates !

Someone in RL has suggested I half wake her about 15 mins before she is due to kick off - so break the cycle. I wonder if that would work ?

Kitbit - cross posted there !

Do they get more molars at this age ? I had no idea ! In which case maybe Nurofen would help ?

looked it up and you're right - their first adult molars come through at about 6 and before their front teeth come out - now dd has wobbly front ones so that may well be the case !!

BUT - at 5.5 and pretty articulate - why the hell can't she tell me she has sore gums ???

Will discuss with her when she comes back from school !

Norah - it really does seem like night terrors to me. Apparently, I had them when I was little and sometimes my mum thought I was wide awake.

Perhaps stop the 'sticker chart' it might be hampering and not helping?

Talked to DD's teacher this afternoon, who says she can zone out at times and the classroom assistant (who is fab) has also experienced the lack on concentration. However they don't think there is a major problem and say she's very bright but has had a bad start at her previous school, but is making fast progress. In fact there are some v bright kids in her class and it's well known that it's a hard class to be in for the average ones. Her teacher says that had she had a better start she'd be amongst the brighter ones, so am feeling quite happy now. They are going to give her some special worksheets for concentration, I'm going to do more hand eye stuff etc and see how we do.

Am also thinking about Kumon, but for English.

Norah, waking her 15mins before definately worked with neice. Forgot to mention that before. That worked and then eventually she stopped. It got to be habit and that seemed to break it.

I also want to add that night terrors do not mean the child is upset or have had some traumatic experience. I think it is more a physiological thing ie, the temperature rise, tiredness etc.

Thanks Bobalina - I'll try that tonight then. She has been put to bed very early tonight by dh - and given Medised - all is quiet up there now - so hopefully she is asleep.

Also good to know that night terrors are not necessarily an indication of a troubled mind !

Kayzed - thanks for that link - I have to say that she does fit all the criteria for ODD and I will be mentioning it to the GP tomorrow. So far she has never shown any susceptibility to additives, colourings etc - but maybe they can get that suddenly ? I am pretty laid back about food - but she doesn't eat rubbish - although she did have a rather lurid fruit pastille lolly last night and possibly that affected her ! Definitely something to keep an eye on !

glassofwine - glad you are making some progress !

hi again... my stepmum is a dental nurse and she has already forewarned me! She also did say that sometimes kids can't or don't tell you they have sore gums at that age because it's unfamiliar and they can't pinpoint where the pain comes from, it just feels like a sore head to them. Maybe asking if she has a sore head might get to the bottom of whether it's teeth or not?

Oh thanks kitbit - she did say a few days ago that her head hurt - it didn't occur to me that it was teeth - I am so badly infornmed !

Well - she's had Medised tonight so hopefully we'll all get a better night's sleep !

Thanks againv

Ask her if her ears/cheeks (sinuses) hurt, as if she is cutting her molars this will be where most of the pain will be as all the nerve systems are connected.

Quite often children don't articulate about having sore gums with molars as they sometimes come thru the gums with very little pain to the actual sight, due to the being blunter than the incisors.

Any one can build up an intollerance to anything, at any time. I wore latex gloves for 8 years of dental nursing & developed an allergy.

Have you tried keeping a diary to see any links in food/lifestyle etc & her behaviour? This may show something, may not.

Either way, I hope you get some answers soon.