Help me gain some control! Non compliant 2yo!

[sleepcrisis]

Hi, I wonder if anyone can offer some advice. Sorry if this turns out really long.

My Ds has just turned 2 and is mostly utterly lovely but we are definitely seeing signs of the terrible twos.

He is very high energy and very demanding, lots of people comment on this. I feel like getting anything done is such an uphill struggle and the slightest task just exhausts me. He just will not listen to what I ask him to do, or just ignores me.

For example, just getting him out of the house. He loves to be out and about, and he gets very bored and difficult to entertain at home. he spends most of the morning asking to get in the car and asking where we are going. But when it actually comes to it, he discovers some unforgotton toy and refuses to get his shoes on. Or he waits by the front door, desperate to get going, but won't let me get him ready, meanwhile he's pulling coats out of the cupboard or something similarly annoying.

This morning we tried to go to B&Q. Disaster. I ditched the buggy a while ago but am tempted to start using it again, although I know that he won't stop whinging as long as he's in it. He was trying to play with everything, from stanley knives to 2.5m lengths of wood he picked up and started flinging about. I got down to his level, asked him not to, told him if he was good and stood by mummy and didn't touch anything that we would go and play at the park. He just got more and more uncontrollable and I had to do the under the arm carry to the door, kicking and screaming. ONce we were in the car I realised there builders were in and we couldn't go home anyway, so I had to back track on the park threat and say that if he apologised for not doing what mummy asked then we would go to the park as planned. He said 'sorry mummy' but I don't think he really understood. At the park he wandered around saying 'me naughty' over and over which made me so sad!

He has 3 doting grandparents who let him do what he wants. ONly one of them follows my lead on disipline. It drives me nuts. They just can't say no and they give into his constant demands for activity and exercise - Granny takes out for the afternoon and just follows him round for hours, going wherever he wants to go. Its nice fo him to be able to explore but I feel there should be some restraints, if only so he can learn how to handle them. In actual fact, one of the grandparents actually takes him to B&Q for fun, to run up and down on rainy days and go up and down in the lift. No wonder he thought it was fair game.

I have found myself more and more using physical restraint which I hate doing. For example if i ask him a couple of times to sit still and let me put suncream on and he doesn't, I carry him kicking and screaming, hold him down and get it on him while he's screaming. I can't count the number of times I've had to carry him to the car under one arm because he won't leave somewhere calmly and by my side.

On the other hand, he can be impeccably behaved - at other peoples houses for example, and he shares nicely etc. But pretty much every stage of our day ends up with me scooping him up and taking him to where I want him to go. He is so stubborn!

I have tried time-out in the hallway for continually turning the tap on despite numerous warnings, but he just thought the whole thing was hilarious. I must admit I found it hard to hold back a giggle when he just kept reappearing at the door. I don't think I was angry enough to see it through tbh, but I did and it took 30 mins for a sorry, by which time he'd obviously forgotton the crime. I don't have time for that! I'm not sure I have the time or energy to see bigger punishments through, eg going to his room. I just can't be bothered to keep up a battle. But I don't want him to end up thinking he'll get away with anything because I can't be arsed to discipline him.

Is ignoring this kind of behaviour too little a reaction at this age? Because it feels like he ends up getting disproportionate amount of attention for a relatively small issue. He is never really really naughty - no hitting, throwing, snatching etc. Its all related to his energy levels and curiosity but I do feel he needs to learn some control.

I have a friend with a 3yo DS and the have struggled with bad behaviour for a couple of years now, but they have always been very strict with him eg sending him to his room at just 2yo for well over an hour, excluding him from family days out etc, over similar sort of behaviour that I'm dealing with now. I really don't want to be that harsh as I don't think it has worked in the long run.

When I told my mum about B&Q incident she just said 'Oh you should have told me, I'd have had him for the morning'. But I really feel that he should be able to manage a 10 min dash into a shop before going to the park without me having to call in help.

Sorry for the length but I'm felling a bit anxious about this whole thing all of a sudden and needed to get it off my chest!

I'm sure plenty of you have been there- what did you do and did it work!?
Thanks.

DS1 was and still is like this, he is 2.9

It's really hard work and I really know how tiring it is, but set a clear boundaries and stick to them

For example, if he likes being outdoors, but won't get his shoes on, just say ok fine we will stay indoors today and ignore - works a treat with DS, when the penny drops he will bring his shoes to me.

I've learnt that it is all attention and if I don't rise to it the novelty wears off

Tonight for example (and this happens most night) I've put his tea on the table and he has refused to eat it, normally I would react and place him in his chair over and over and over until he is having a meltdown and I'm stressed out. If I just ignore it he will just sit down and eat the lot, he is now having jelly for pudding

It's all about testing their boundaries, and over the last month I've been winning thank god as now have a 5mo DD

I really don't know how to resolve the shops issue, that's a battle I'm yet to conquer!

Sounds like my nephew who has always had a lot of energy and needed outdoor time every day. My sister treated him like a large dog that needed walking twice a day. He was impossible if he didn't have chance to work off some of his energy. They have a trampoline in the garden - he goes on it in all weathers, rain or shine. Now that he is older he can go on long cycle rides as well.
Re - discipline / naughtiness etc - I agree with ignoring and not rising to the bait - easier said than done, but since it is stopping him doing what he wants to do ie go out, then he should get the message fairly quickly.
"Time to put your shoes on"
"No"
"Fine, we'll go out when you are ready to put your shoes on"
End of discussion, carry on with whatever else you need to do.
Shopping - perhaps you need to build up slowly with a very clear reward system. Go to a shop every single day and start off by buying a single item - walk in, take item from shelf, straight to till, pay and leave. If he can behave nicely, he gets a reward (sweetie, sticker on a chart, whatever). Once he can do this, increase to 2 items and so on. It's all about rewards/bribery with boys - I'll get shouted down I expect, but it worked well for mine. Again, like training a boisterous dog.....

I agree with the bribery!!!

I also agree with bribery, and reins if he's unsafe near roads, in b&q etc

Thanks for all the comments. So, ignoring and bribery are a common theme.

I think part of the problem is me not staying calm. I don't get angry or shouty very often, but I am quite a fast paced, hectic kind of person and I don't like taking things slowly. When he's geting agitated I want to deal with it all quickly and carry on moving. I get a bit flustered and just shove a snack at him too often, I can't bear the sound of whinging and crying. Or I stick the telly on - another of his favourite things. When really I should probably say 'you can have the snack/beebies when you've calmed down and asked nicely.'

So my flusteryness is not geared up to ignoring whinges and moans and tantrums, but I will give it a go for sure.

So with bribery, do you offer the reward before the shopping trip has begun, for example? Ie in the car, we're going to the sjhop, if you're god you can have a box of raisins afterwards? Or do you offer the bribe once the bad behaviour has begun. Because I kind of feel that offering it in advance is almost asking for him to play up, its reminding him that I'm there to annoy. But on the other hand, waiting until the behaviour has begun just feels like I'm looking for a bribe out of desperation and doesn't feel tough enough?

I have quite a lively (and stubborn!) 2.3yo dd and feel your frustration all too well. She has got a lot better with shops though, I take her on the big weekly supermarket shop and she's pretty good now (though we did have a few months of hell after she started refusing to sit in the trolley). What's worked for us is keeping her really focused and letting her 'help', so getting her to put vegetables in bags, pick non breakable things off the shelf for me, put (throw...) things in the trolley. And just trying to redirect - eg 'we don't need baby wipes, put those back please, can you help me choose a new toothbrush?'

With the suncream, dd also likes to 'help' do that - I squeeze some onto her hand and ask her to do her arm or my nose or whatever while I do the rest of her as quick as possible, then she's ok with it.

On the shoe thing I also say oh well mummy will have to go out on her own today and head for the door - by the time I open it I usually get 'wait' and then frantic shoe grabbing

Watching with interest... DS is 2.7 and I've been doing a lot of carrying him under one arm while he shouts stuff.

Hey, I could have wrote this exact thread about six months ago! Infact I did! A good old rant does help! My son hated being in his pushchair so I bought him the little life backpack reins and it made a huge difference to him as he had the freedom but I had the control. As for leaving the actual shop, this was progression over a few months! I honestly thought he would be like it forever but every time we go out he improves. I always explain 'Right we have to leave this shop now but we can go to another one or the park' - At first I thought I'm talking to myself here but it did sink in and he now just walks out. I also keep a few handbag toys, little figures etc and lollies in my pocket for tired tantrum emergencies! I also am the sort of person that even with a child has to be quick, shortest queue, hurry up everyone, you're all so slow, but then I realised I was in a rush for nothing sometimes and just let him do exactly as he wishes in the park, play area etc, it has helped and made me enjoy him more.

My first thought when reading your post was that there seems to be a lot of negative interaction going on? My advice would be to think about ways to make common tasks fun and funny, so you both have fun. Try to think of the world from his eyes - i.e. seeing the world as entirely a place for exploration and sensory pleasures. Try to say yes more than you say no.

Like, when doing up buttons I make a different silly noise for each button (wizz, pop, cantangle, pow, etc). Or when putting on shoes I sing a stupid song like "putting on our shoes, putting on our shoes, hi ho the merry o I'm putting on your shoes". And when getting in the buggy perhaps challenge him to do it himself (then, wow! aren't you amazing getting up there all by yourself!!). I dunno, it just seemed to me there wasn't a lot of fun going on in your relationship with him.

My DS is 2.6 and his behaviour has improved since I started letting him "help" me more. He can do more than I gave him credit for. I didn't used to be able to make dinner as he'd be tired and grumpy, now I ask him if he can help me cook and give him little jobs like cutting the herbs (with plastic scissors of course!) or even just giving him a bowl of dried pasta with a bit of water for him to "mix" makes him feel involved.

We have to take the dog to the park every morning and he always used to go ballistic when we'd arrive at the entrance with the playground in view and he couldn't go in (no dogs in playground) - now I clip a spare lead to the dog (actually it's clipped to the lead I'm holding but it appears to be attached to the dog) and he "walks" her for me. If we have to run a walking errand he is much better behaved if he "takes his baby" (doll in buggy) to the shop. He even has a little trolley we took to Tesco yesterday and he did the essentials run with just me telling him what to pick up (milk, bread, etc) and put it in the trolley, loaded it onto the conveyor belt etc.

It's hard when you just want to get things done, run the errands so you can get them out of the way quickly and go and play, but if you've got the time maybe get him to "help" you more. That turns it into a game for him and he feels useful and involved.

Sorry if that isn't very good advice, it's just what works for us. I used to feel like you do, and always felt I was carrying him out of shops etc under my arm. He's still a bit of a monkey, but much easier to control now that he has extra "responsibility" and doing all those things might not be fun for me but they are for him (I don't want to be in Tesco's during a heatwave!) and they teach him about the grown-up world too.

You're not alone OP!

I can relate to a lot you've said.

Some great advice so far - I like the positive / fun approach and trying to say yes more. Hard sometime though

I just don't go to hardware type shops unless someone else is there too. My ds is very curious and that kind of place is Aladdin's cave with added danger / breakability. It saves a lot of stress.

Choices is another good one to distract them - these mushrooms or these ones? Which shoes do you want to wear, rather than put your shoes on works a treat here.

And a lot of tantrums are linked to overtiredness / teething pain / hunger /thirst. Don't see it as a battle, that he is out to get you, try and see things from his point of view, eg he is too excited, too bored to sit still.

I don't really give a stuff about getting a sorry. An enforced sorry is pretty meaningless as they don't understand it and you end up losing your rag over it if they won't say it. And my ds says sorry btw. Because I model when to say it. If he is bad I explain why he shouldn't do it and move on. I also re-direct, you can't do that but you can do this. The turning on the taps sounds like he wants to have fun with you, can you do something silly with him every so often.

And grandparents are grandparents not parents. Unless they are your childcare or really reckless I would let them get on with it their way.

Thanks for more replies everyone.

I must say that I was initially a bit defensive about Kikiinkits comments about us not having any fun and have been thinking about it alot today. We do have fun, lots of fun and at first I was a bit annoyed by the comments - In my OP I was just referrring to the tough bits.

I guess where I am going wrong is that I am totally separating the fun bits with the chores that need doing, and not bringing the fun into it. Thats where I need to address things. When we don't have a job to do we have lots of fun together - exploring in all the bushes at the park, gardening (he digs and waters and hunts for worms), I do lots of physical rough and tumble with him, we go on bear hunts in the garden etc. And we try to go swimming etc (he LOVES swimming and soft play etc but its the being there that is great, not the getting there and back again bit!) But I think that when I have a job to do, eg the shops, running errands etc, I totally forget about fun and just expect too much of him. And when most days are interspersed with chores, I can see how he might get less of the fun mummy and more of the hurried, serious mummy.

I am going to try and get him more involved in day to day boring stuff and give him jobs to do. I like MeercatMerkins suggestions of getting him to help at the supermarket etc. I have tried half heartedly with that before but I always feel stressed out in those situations and like the clock is ticking to get the job done before he has a melt down. I need to calm down and try to enjoy it a bit more, maybe he'd pick up on that too.
Also I had forgotton about the baby buggy! We did actually take that to the shops once and it was a massive success. And of course he got tons of attention from shopkeepers as he was so cute with it, that helped a lot!

Thanks again for all the comments.

Another mum here who can relate... DS1 now 2.11 has always been highly energetic and into everything, constantly testing boundaries. I remember around the time he turned 2 being a particularly testing phase when he would regularly kick up a huge fuss about getting into his buggy or carseat! Things are a lot better now that his understanding and vocabulary has improved so we can chat more, reason a little and look forward to where we're going, what we're doing, etc.

We do the reverse psychology thing, like if he doesn't want to put his shoes on, then say "ok then we can't go out, we'll just stay at home" which quickly changes his mind! I do think that for him that is attention seeking. We also do time outs where he (has to stay somewhere until he has "stopped crying", that is, the type of whining when he can't get his way (clearly different to genuine upset!!) which works a treat, he usually comes out after a few mins saying "I've stopped crying now" bless.

For supermarket, now that there is also DS2 who is 11 months, the trolley is compulsory for both of them. DS2 sits up front and DS1 in the back, which he quite likes. When he wants to get out I try distractions by helping me, holding things, or a snack. We generally do big shops online though! Places like B&Q, I'd probably opt for the buggy if just me, but if not in a hurry I'd just let him explore a little, which I do try not to be, just allowing extra time for things.

Suppose I have been questioning myself, am I not wanting him to do something for his sake or mine? Why not follow him around and let him explore sometimes? While consistency is important in discipline, I think it is also important to distinguish between non-negotiables and where things are flexible. I know I am guilty of being impatient, worrying far too much and always in a hurry!!