Baby sleep problems - help!

[newtothenet]

My 5 month old is a terrible sleeper. Is anyone else going through the same thing, or can anyone offer any advice?

In the day she will have two to three naps of 20 to 60 minutes. She will sleep in her pram, sometimes in the car and eventually in my arms. If we're at home and I see the first signs of tiredness I will pick her up, rock her and sing to her. At first she will smile, then she realises what I'm doing and kicks, lashes out and cries until she falls asleep between 5 and 20 minutes later. I'm currently experimenting with putting her down (asleep) in her cot for one sleep a day, but this takes a lot of work and she needs patting every few minutes to keep her asleep.

At night she settles quickly (on the breast - she is ebf) and I put her down in her cot asleep. However she wakes 5 or 6 times a night wide awake and grumbling. If I feed her she goes back down easily in 15 minutes but if I pat or shush her it takes much longer and usually doesn't work.

One of the first things I learned about parents, mostly mums, when I started working with the under 3s is that they lie. I think it's a really hard thing to be totally honest as a parent because often you don't want to admit your struggling, but in the process you make other struggling mums feel like awful failures.
To one parent sleeping through the night means their baby did it once between midnight and waking up! They idealize what they want to happen and tell others that it is to make themselves feel better. I'm remembering the mum who brought in her lo insisting at 8 months they slept 3 times a day for at least an hour a time at set times, within days of lo starting we were tearing our hour out because they just wouldn't sleep and mum wanted to know why things were going wrong. It got to the point she was so worked up about it management called her in to say we felt it best lo was pulled out. It turned out lo wasn't actually sleeping at home and she was really struggling; rocking to sleep for hours to result in a max 20 min cat nap. So parents can create their own fantasy worlds to cope.
For me I firmly believe in doing what works for you. Dd is 8 months old and has never slept through the night and is a almost none existent day time sleeper. She'll eventually sleep for short periods in the pram and sleeps in arms during the day time after feeding to sleep. At night she sometimes goes down between 6.30 and 8 other times she won't until we go to bed, she normally feeds to sleep and is put down but has the odd magic moment when she settles herself to sleep. She'll wake somewhere between 11 and 2, once were in bed, before too, and feed back to sleep, depending how tired I am she may come in with us or after next feed. She's now a pro at helping herself to what she wants after she's in with us so I get a decent block of sleep. This is what works for the three of us, and it took lots of experimenting to reach it, you need to find what's best for you whatever that is.
I've really struggled with dd's sleep at times and like you have read sleep training plans being close to tears when she won't settle and I'm exhausted. I don't think I could follow through with any of them but have felt that desperate, no full night sleep for over a year. So much changes for babies in the first few years of life it must be scary; discovering your body does things you never expected, teeth pushing into your mouth, there's countless reasons not to sleep. If it helps you, when there's no snotty nose, no tooth trying to make an appearance, no new skill being mastered, no snotty nose, and it is a comfortable temperature dd wants to be laid in her cot to go to sleep independently (and won't concert to being rocked or fed despite the fact mummy feels lost without that routine).
Also mums who have got themselves back out into the real world have chosen to do that, if you have different priorities give yourself a break, not everyone wants the same things. I knew life would change when dd arrived and it has I don't leave her much but I've learned not stress over the fact because I don't desperately want to.
On a practical note, to help you get more sleep, is there anyone who could watch your dd for you once in a while at your own home so you could go to bed for a couple of hours. I do this a couple of times a month after dd has had breakfast it gives me a whole new out look. If dh isn't around, a student from the fe college will pop over to play. It so nice to get even just an hour in then have dd brought to me for a feed.

New I could have written your post too! Mine is 19 weeks & very similar. I've tried lots of stuff but in all honesty have just come to accept that all babies are different, tis is mine & all those other women won't be so smug when ours do something else much easier than theirs when they're older & they realise that no matter when routines or books or whatever you try, some babies just aren't made that way. It helps that I have skin as thick as a rhino so can just smile, nod and laugh about it and have somehow convinced myself that really I don't need much sleep to function!

During the day we go a couple of nice, slow, pottering walks around the park where she'll normally have a quick nap and if all else fails I lie down on the sofa or living room floor and feed her to sleep and she'll have a snooze next to me or stuck to me in this weather while I watch some intellectual TV Neighbours.

Overnight we usually have 2-4 feeds to sleep so not quite as rough as you, but a couple more wakings where she'll grumble. I've started just lying there and listening to those and only getting her up if she cries and every now and then she puts herself back to sleep. My main problem at the moment is bedtime. She's dog tired by 7.30pm but then wakes within 10-20mins of being put down and screams the house down until fed back to sleep and repeats this until around 10pm. I'm not bothered about not having our adult evenings because I know that will come with time but less screaming would be lovely!

Also my DH always says that while ours is by far the worst sleeper, she's also the most alert, interested, nosey, smiley one and he definitely wouldn't swap that for one that just sleeps a bit more in the beginning mind you he would say that as she's also a bottle refuser so he doesn't have to get up with her!

Wow! So many replies! Thank you! Gail we have a sling and a Ewan the dream sheep which we're trying to get her associated with going to sleep. I'm not sure that's it's the four month regression as, apart from literally two weeks when she was about two months old and slept for 5-6 hours at a time, she's always been like this.

wicked thank you, that is great advice, and very reassuring. I do get a bit of chance to rest. My mum comes once a week so I get chance to have a sleep then if I've had a bad night, and my husband will take her out / get up with her at the weekend so I can have a lie in. I'm usually ok in the daytime though, there's something to be said for the sunshine and a nice shower making you feel human again. And my priority is my baby. I'm not at all bothered about going out in the evenings, and my MIL kindly watched dd while dh and I went out for lunch the other Saturday. So I do get a lot of help, and most of the time I'm fine. It's just weeks like this one that I start to feel sorry for myself and wish that I could occasionally stay up until after 8.30pm!

SoYo it sounds like we're pretty similar. Friends have always commented on how alert dd is (though maybe they're just being polite!) and I wouldn't swap her for the world. Of all the babies I've met she's most definitely the best . I went out with some other mums when our babies were first born. All the others slept in their prams and occasionally woke to be fed and went back to sleep again. Mine was up and looking at everything and getting thoroughly bored. "oh, you want to look out the window do you? No? Do you want to go for a walk over there? No? Still fed up? How about a bounce on me knee? Nice bit of rocking?"

New I too was where you are when my DD was 5 months old. I tried desperately to create a routine but she had other ideas, until we reached 6 months, she is 6.5 months now. All of a sudden things started to fall in place. She set her routine herself for the night and day. She will have 3/4 naps during the day, for 30 mins and then bedtime routine starts at 8pm and she is asleep by 9pm. Normally she will wake once a 4am but occasionally she will wake at 12, or 2 or 5 am as well. It is unpredictable but on the whole we will have a good stretch from 9pm to 4pm.

And this all happened naturally. The only thing I do the same is the bedtime routine. And during the day, as soon as I see a sleep cue then I whisk her upstairs. She does take some coaxing to calm her down, so I will feed her, turn tv/radio off, gently rock her, pat back etc but on the whole she will self settle. The other thing I have noticed is that if she gets over tired/stimulated then we have a battle on our hands to calm her down. And lastly she suffers with really bad wind so it can take up to 30 mins of back rubbing, stomach massage, gripe water feeding to get all her wind out before she can settle.

I am by no means an expert, I have struggled and have been envious of my friends who had seemingly contented babies in a routine. I blamed myself thinking it was because she was ebf. She was still hungry. But personally, and in hindsight I think it is just a waiting game. DD feeds much less now, because I believe her stomach is bigger and she can suck more effectively. So feeding is done in 10 mins and she can go up to 3 hours without another feed. And she is more mobile now, rolling, kicking her legs, babbling so maybe this tires her out too. All of this i think contributes to her sleeping better at night.

I hope my experiences above help you to see you are doing nothing wrong. And I really hope you are able t get some more sleep soon.

I woke up this morning miserable thinking when will I have get those mornings back where I would just lounge in bed until "I want to get up" rather than being forced to get up and play!! Hey it is worth it though....

Gosh this thread is reassuring.

I'm a first time Mum currently struggling with an adorable, but very sleep resistant 14 week DS!!

Cannot put him in his cot for daytime naps. I've tried and I've tried, but he always starts to cry - I sit with him, hold his dummy, sing to him, ssshh him - everything in the book, but he fights it. We both end up fraught and fed up.

As a result he rarely falls asleep until 9pm at night, and is still waking for one or two nighttime feeds (not as bad as 8 admittedly!).

During the last few days I've gone back to letting him sleep on me. I just can't cope with him not sleeping, and if he goes out on me for 40 minutes then I just put the TV on and go with it.

Doesn't help that one of my closest friends has recommended a schedule and said her children were sleeping for 2 hours in their cot in the afternoon at this age.

I too feel like a failure at the moment.

Hello. I want to send all your mums a big hug and say you are all doing brilliant jobs with your babies. It's really very hard to get babies to sleep well and it's a very emotional thing. My little one is nearly 20 wo and we have managed to teach her to self-settle in her cot, and to nap well during the day and sleep through at night. Now, it is absolutely NOT for everyone but we used 'The sensational baby sleep plan' by Alison Scott-Wright. She gives you a step by step method to help your baby to learn to go to sleep in their cot and detailed routines for feeding and napping. I am one of several new mums who swear by her methods. But, like I say, it isn't for everyone. You would have a tough first week or so getting into the routine but all the hard work would be worth it. I wish you lots of luck. Xx

I'd second sorting the daytime naps first. For my DD over-tiredness was a huge problem as she refused to sleep anywhere other than on mine or DH's chest, resulting in poor and unsettled sleep. As soon as I started insisting that she take naps in her cot (darkened room, sleeping bag, Ewan the dreamsheep and a boob beforehand all helped) then she began to take longer, more regular naps in the day, be easier to settle at night and only wake once or twice during the night, needing a quick breastfeed to resettle.

It isn't for everyone but I have resorted to leaving my DD (6 months) to cry for short periods of time to settle herself to sleep in the day, the softer methods never really worked unfortunately. She generally will only complain for 5 minutes and then go off to sleep. If it goes on for 10/15 minutes plus then I usually get her up and try again later, though this does lead to over-tiredness accumulating.

Thanks everyone, and tricky, you're in good company here. So I'm working on the naps and today was a good nap day - we managed four totalling about 2.5 hours. One was on me, two in the pram and one in the cot. I'm trying to make sure at least one is in the cot in the dark bedroom, which consists of rocking to sleep then putting down then patting every time she stirs. This is the hardest nap and always the shortest but I'm hoping she'll get used to it and improve so she sleeps longer and with less help from me. Then I'll progress to more cot sleeps but at the moment she needs the pram sleeps to top her up.

So we'll see if the good napping today affects tonight's sleep.

Also, we have the fan on for a bit of white noise. If that helps I might introduce it to the daytime naps. But if nothing else it's cooling our boiling hot bedroom!

Fingers crossed for a good night for us all. I'll report back on my night tomorrow.

Newtothenet a fan is supposed to reduce the risk of cot death as well so doubly good if it improves sleep as well. I hope you have a better night.

Hi all, we had not too bad a night. Five night feeds and I'm feeling much better about it all after all of your lovely messages. I'm going to keep working on the naps and see how it goes. I've also ordered the no cry sleep solution book to read. I'm reluctant to do any harder sleep training right now as she's only 5 months but will definitely bear in mind the advice and pointers some of you have given me when she's a bit older if we decide to go down that route.

Does anyone have any experience of whether weaning helps sleep? We've not started yet as we are waiting until 6 months so we can try BLW. But I think it's comfort rather than food that she wants as she goes about 3-4 hours in the day. I think she's just a light sleeper and struggles to get back off on her own when she wakes up.

New I've moved to a hungry baby formula to try and help my LO sleep.

Glad you had a better night.

My DS slept from 8.30pm to 2pm, then through till 6am.

For me it's not the night time as such, but he fights day time sleeping like you wouldn't believe. And if you put him in his cot he gets very angry.

I don't think this hot weather is helping. I would take him up to his cot during the day, but the bedrooms are BOILING.

My neighbour has just been over to say her 18 DD is having a party tonight. The parents are going out, but she said it'll go on till 1pm, and then they're sleeping in tents in the garden. They will be drinking.

Arrrgggghhhh!!

Just adding sympathy and another "me too" post. I could have written your OP.

DS is just over 5 months and has never been a good sleeper. He's a real nap time refusenik, particularly at home. I've been hopeful this week though as for a few days he did have some proper naps in his cot, shortish ones but pretty regular and evenly spaced during the day and he even settled himself on a couple. Yesterday it was back to normal.

I had been thinking that it may be because he has actually been tiring himself out physically, which he couldn't do before. He is sitting well unsupported so plays sitting for shortish periods, which seems to tire him. He also is trying to move when on his tummy. He's always been a physical baby, moving his arms and legs constantly, but maybe when smaller this wasn't enough.

My DS also a very physical baby - always kicking enthusiastically when he's awake. Also very alert - to quote one of my friends 'I've never seen such an alert baby'.

So it seems we're not alone, but I can't find anyone in RL who admits to having a baby like this!

As it's so hot today and we have nothing to do I've decided to observe DS to see what HIS sleep patterns are. Going back to basics, rather than the old 'Put him to bed at 2pm for 2 hours' lark.

He slept in his pram for about 40 minutes this morning. Then at 11.30 he fell asleep on the sofa. So I gently (soooooo gently) took him upstairs to his cot, where he slept for a further 40 minutes.

Will see how I get on for the rest of the day, but so far I'm following his lead and it's going ok. I guess once he starts waking up in his cot he might start to get used to being put to sleep in his cot?

Ooh, hello everyone! There are lots of us in the incredible wide awake baby gang!

tricky that's what I'm trying too. Dd sleeps when she wants to while in her pram (we do a lot of walking!) but for the one nap in the day where I'm trying to get her to sleep in the cot I'm rushing upstairs to do so when I see her yawn and rub her eyes rather than at a certain time.

Like you I'm hoping she'll get more used to the cot for naps and then sleep longer and more frequently in it.

And like a few of you my dd too has always been a fidget bum. She never ever sits still, kicking about and waving her arms and is reluctant to sit and cuddle. She always wants to stand / twist / throw herself backwards / jiggle about. She's just started rolling but maybe when she's sitting up or crawling she might expend more energy and wear herself out more.

Can I also please say a big thank you to everyone. I've lurked on mumsnet for a while now but have only just started to post. I thought mumsnetters were supposed to be horrible, but I've had nothing but kind words, support, and helpful advice on this thread.

Ps tricky sorry to hear about the party. Sleep is so rare in our house that noisy neighbours actually make me want to cry. Fingers crossed they don't disturb you too much. Do you have a fan or other white noise you can use to block the noise from your DS?

New, I like the name "the incredible wide awake baby gang"

Right from when he was tiny I've had comments about how alert DS is and he's very fidgety. He doesn't generally get upset unless there's clearly something wrong such as some getting pain. Although I haven't had more than three hours sleep at a stretch for ages and barely get a minute to myself during the day I console myself with the fact he is generally happy and already seems to have bags of character.

Yes to a fan, had it on all night last night. DS wasn't bothered by the party, it kept me awake though!

Hating this heat at the moment, it's so hard for US to sleep so I think it makes it more difficult to get babies into a routine.

Weaning does not help sleep... Sometimes it even disrupts it a bit more when they get used to things in their tummies that aren't milk...

It's developmental, it will happen...