How do we help DS(6) modify/control his behaviour? (exceedingly long)

[HerRoyalNotness]

Where to start?

DS1 (just turned six), has been difficult since beginning school last september, in reception/kindergarten. He found it a struggle to settle in school, had zero respect for the teachers, disruptive in class, hitting, screaming, refusing to do work. He had previously been to a preschool for 2 years which was very formal, with circle time, letter and number learning, along with art, maths and play. They had no concerns with him Throughout the year, probably weekly, there would be letters home from the teacher to complain about his behaviour. It was a complete 180 from how he normally behaved before he began school.

We took him to see a therapist, who didn't have any concerns regarding special needs, and thought he was immature, but bright. He does seem an anxious child, especially in new situations, meeting new people etc... During this time, he was also going to art classes, which was a struggle to get him to, but once there, settled in well. Part of the therapist suggestion we did, which was DH started reading to him every night and having a chat before bed about worries etc... which really helped him. He almost came back to his usual self.

He also started piano, I cancelled these after about 6 lessons as he showed anxiety going, and again I struggled to get him to go, he'd refuse to do the work, and ended up in a meltdown at one lesson with him screaming the place down. When he actually bothered to do it, he could iyswim. In the end I took him out of everything, to ensure that he only had to focus on school.

They started a sad face/happy face chart with him at school. Rarely would he get a happy face for the day. I felt it made him anxious to just get the happy face and he didn't really connect it with his behaviour. For the last 2 weeks of school I ripped it up and sent in stickers instead for GREAT behaviour. He came home with some of those on his shirt, and was proud to show us. But his behaviour overall didn't improve. There was an incident at school where other teachers didn't believe him, he HATES that, he ended up screaming, swearing at them etc... I got to the bottom of the story after speaking with the school, and in fact he HAD been telling the truth. Anyway, to continue...

Over summer he is in camp. Today they called to say he reached boiling point, yesterday he'd scratched some kids, leaving marks. When they spoke to him in the office about it, he SPAT at the office person, tried to hit, used bad language, and was generally a B-rat. I ended up picking him up and he's now sitting next to me at work drawing a sorry note and copying lines "i will not spit/scratch etc.."

Each time, we talk through any worries he has, how to behave in a different way, using words instead, telling him swearing is inappropriate. When we talk, he really understands all of this, he understands what he should/shouldn't do, and what listening means etc... He loses ipad priveleges, and has timeouts, and no treats. It doesn't seem to sink in. He says he doesn't know why he does it, or how to stop. He doesn't seem to be in control of himself. I do roleplay with him, to show how hurtful his behaviour is to people, and try to use it to teach him empathy in the hope of him controlling himself.

I DO NOT KNOW WHAT to do! We've had 12mths of this, and I'm exhausted, disappointed and saddened by it. I will take him back to the therapist for another chat, but what can we do ourselves to help him. He is a lovely, funny, smart little guy, with a great sense of humour. He is kind, helpful and polite. He is lovely with his little brother, and won't hit back when DS2 hits him. I am shocked by the behaviour we hear about.

Has anyone been through this? How did you break through? Did they outgrow it?

Hm? in some ways he reminds me of my DS, who was given an Asperger?s diagnosis after his first year at school. Liking a structured formal setting, hating to be disbelieved (or contradicted?), anxiety?. that?s all quite Aspie-ish, though there?s plenty of other things it could be too (And your DS sounds more emotionally articulate than mine) My DS was absolutely fine in nursery but a total hell-bunny from the moment he started school and as for holiday club ? no chance! Despite being bright and hard-working, he was disruptive and he?d go off into huge violent tantrums at other children and adults for little or no reason.

(DS needed a lot of support to begin with but he is now a teenager, in a mainstream school with no direct support, doing very well academically and reasonably well behaviourally and while he?s not a social butterfly he?s not doing too badly compared to many teenagers either!)

It?s a good idea to get some feedback from the therapist, but given how long this has been going on and that it isn?t getting better, I?d go to your GP and ask for a referral to children?s mental health services and a developmental paediatritian. The issue might turn out to be something quite different from Asperger?s, but you probably need that referral from your GP to find out what it is.

mmm that's interesting to read klein another thing I've noticed is he is firm friends with no more than 2 people at a time in school. In preschool it was him and 2 others, very close friendship, the same in reception. Only ever wanted to play with 2 friends, only ever talked about them.

He does seem to like structure, we explained to the teacher she needed to be firm and clear with him, but she was a bit loosey goosey and did not seem a good match. She really was unable to relate to him.

Unfortunately we don't have a GP here, haven't had one in 5 years. I'm taking him friday to a pead clinic for some vaccine catchups, so will ask then about getting him seen and will make the appointment with his therapist for more advice.

And oh yes ? disrespect. Respect just didn?t mean the same thing to my DS as it does to other people. He did respect teachers in the sense that he would listen to them and accept all kinds of new information BUT?.. he wouldn?t do something the teacher told him unless he believed it was the right thing to do. It?s very hard to explain?.. He lacked any sense that if he disagreed with the teacher then maybe he could be wrong and the teacher right. It was as if he didn?t trust anyone?s opinion but his own, regardless of whether that was an adult or authority figure. The adult would have to convince him logically that they were right in terms that he understood, he would never accept ?I?m the adult so I know more than you, do as I say and not what you think?. Whereas for most kids it?s the other way round, they tend to accept an adult?s view over their own?

(This has improved with age, but DS is still very opinionated on things he knows nothing about, and he will refuse to believe that an expert is right if it conflicts with something he read on the back of a crisp packet. )

Also, after a huge conflict DS would often change his mind later on (after everything had calmed down) and accept that the teacher was right -- but then he would never accept that he had once believed the opposite! It was as if he?d always believed it.

And yet DS was very co-operative and eager to learn, just so long as the teacher?s instructions didn?t conflict with what he ?knew? was right. And what worked for this was time - giving him advance warning so he knew what was going to happen and wasn?t expecting something different to happen, making sure he knew all the rules in advance and never changing the rules or springing new rules on him without plenty of warning. And structure and routine, so he didn?t feel people were changing the rules on him all the time.

Dunno of any of this rings bells for you? but there you go!

It does resonate klein, there is something I just can't put my finger on.

When the camp said earlier in the week they were changing his group, it should have red flagged. I didn't even think, and suspect that's why he kicked off so badly. He hates change, it makes him more anxious.

This morning I had to explain again they are moving him into a different group with slighter older boys as they've found that works in the past with the younger ones, he suddenly didn't want to go to camp and had a bellyache. I told them in the office when I dropped him off that he's anxious and needs consistency, they reassured me the section leader will make sure he settles. He wouldn't go with her, she was perfectly nice, friendly and happy. I walked him to the auditorium and when he saw his usual camp leader he was happy to go sit on her lap and watch the movie.

It's mid morning, no calls yet, I'll see how he goes today..

So now he has been KICKED out of camp, they will refund us the rest of the summer.

Today he slapped someone and spat at the adults etc.. they couldn't control him. He is 6 years old. He doesn't behave like this for us or our friends. This is the third year he's been at the camp so he knows the drill.

I actually don't know what to do. He had such a shit year in kindergarten, we thought he'd at least have a fun summer at camp and have good memories before we leave here. And we are moving somewhere new in 4 weeks, new country, school, people.

Hi Heroyal, does he have any funny little things or behaviours that are unique to him? How is his sleeping and eating? Is he particularly sensitive to any textures, sounds or light?

Oh, I am really sorry about the camp! For what it?s worth I took my DS out of the holiday club because they were calling me away from work to pick him up and I couldn?t stand the stress of waiting for him to get kicked out altogether. He went to an autism-specialist playscheme for a couple of years, where they considered him a pretty easy child ; then he had a supported place in a mainstream after-school and holiday club; and now he goes along to occasional youth activities or goes out with his own friends. So things can get better but it wasn?t an easy road.

I guess all this change isn?t going to be easy for your DS. But maybe the new school will suit him better. Meantime can he just stay home with you and have a nice peaceful time?

If you don?t have a GP then you?re not in the UK? I don?t know how things work in other countries. If you think there?s "something" unusual about your DS you could ask on the MN Special Needs (Kids) board ? a lot of experience over there.

He doesn't like restrictive clothing, prefers comfy things like joggers and cotton t-shirts. Food is as plain as can be, doesn't do sauces, doesn't like food that is mixed together, like stews etx, but on the other hand will eat raw oysters and lobster, mussels etc.

Sleeping is not great, he wakes every night and gets in our bed, either noises, need for toilet, thirsty or scared are his reasons. DH is not bothered and will just swap beds with him.

He is always playing with plasticine, loves the texture of it and making models.

He talks non stop and is loud. He notices the detail in things especially nature.

I work and only have 3 weeks left and was going to spend 2 weeks with him at home before we moved then of course be off work to settle him in to new school and home before I go back. DH wants me to book him another camp, but like you I can't deal with the phone calls and waiting to see how he behaved, so I will just tell my boss I need to finish now. I haven't got anything on, I was just hanging in for the pay, but we will manage if we are frugal until I can start work again.

I will call his therapist tomorrow, can't face it today, I've texted her and she has some ideas. It's all just such bad timing, we don't have time to help much before we have to find new support for him, but it will be a start.

Just asked those things because some children struggle with sensory issues. This can give rise to acute behaviour problems. It might be worth having him assessed by an OT for sensory problems if you can find a good child specialist one where you are.

One book that?s very good on kids who have major outbursts which don?t respond to consequences is ?Explosive Child? It talks about a lot of different kids not just the autism-spectrum ? in fact the old version I had didn?t even mention autism! ? and I found it very useful. Might be insightful even though your DS is well behaved at home.

I have two DDs with Asperger's and a lot of what you say resonates with me.

If he has it the challenges of being in a group for long periods could be enormous.

The sensory environment of all the different smells from people's washing powders, perfumes, etc, combined with extra noise and touching (even gentle touches can be painful if he is tactile defensive) could be overwhelming and lead to sensory overload.

If you consider that in combination with getting to know a new set of people, both adults and children, the emphasis on fun meaning that rules could be bent and the exhaustion brought on by such an intense social environment requiring massive concentration simply to read the hundreds of social cues happening around him, it's no surprise at all that he would lose it and start lashing out.

Until he has been assessed by someone who truly understands AS and the difference in presentation from classic Autism I wouldn't even consider sending him to another camp. He would probably be much happier sitting quietly alongside you at work doing some structured activities in a calm, predictable environment.

In the meantime read some of Tony Attwood's publications about AS and how children can work hard to disguise their symptoms and try to fit in socially at great cost to their own well-being.

Kleinz I read the explosive child and he ticks many boxes in the list. I will refresh myself. Thanks for your comments too Gold.

His therapist is recommending an affective and a social consciousness assessment and getting a referral sorted out for him to see what is going on.

He had a nap after DH picked him up from camp and slept 2.5hrs. Woke up cheery as anything. I do think tiredness has a lot to do with his behaviour but I don't know what is causing him to feel so tired. We stick to bedtimes, 7.30-8pm and he wakes anywhere from 6-7.30. Apart from the one nocturnal waking, he goes straight back to sleep after that.
i can see how processing his environment would be exhausting.

Hopefully we can get a referral quickly for him to get an idea of what support he needs. I will try to be more conscious of putting him in social situations alone. He was quite happy at work yesterday with me, just chatty! I'll talk to my boss Monday about which he would prefer, a shadow or for me just to leave early. I've mapped out a "mummy camp" schedule with fun, play, chores (dishes, tidying) and reading/writing. I'm quite looking forward to the schedule myself actually.

I mean NOT putting him where he feels uncomfortable

Well, it's quite likely that what is exhausting your DS is the social demands ? as Goldmandra says, there are lots of kids, kids he doesn?t know, adults he doesn?t know and who don?t know him, activities he?s never done before or has done with different people in a different way, a ?fun? setting with a timetable that?s probably a bit unpredictable, instructions that aren't always totally clear and rules that change?. That is a lot to deal with for any six year old. Many kids cope fine, but some can?t.

If you look at Spoon Theory and apply it to social demands instead of physical demands, you could say the tantrums happen when he runs out of spoons.

Your plans sound very sensible and I?m glad the therapist was helpful. It can take time to figure out exactly what?s going on with this kind of thing. And it must be very draining for you too, so remember to take care of yourself

i can see how processing his environment would be exhausting.

My 16 year old DD1 had an induction day at her sixth form this week. She has lots of support and enjoyed the day but when she got home she went straight to bed and slept for two hours. She was exhausted from the effort it took to manage the social and sensory input from such an intense day even though she spent most of it sitting down.

You could suggest to your son's new school that he should have sensory breaks planned in his day allowing him time away from other pupils, perhaps outside to recharge his batteries and give him more stamina to cope with the rest of the day.

One thing I've noticed, which seemed cute, is he'll say I'll smell the way we have to go. (Ie if we're walking and say which way?). We were watching a cooking show the other day and he said that smells delicious! Rather than looks. I've noticed this a lot, him referring to smell sense rather than sight.

Anyway, first appointment Tuesday with DS, DH and I to get some family background, then she'll do a couple of sessions with DS and see where we go from there if anything needs further looking at.

Google Synaesthesia which is kind of crossed sensory wires.

My DD2 has an enormously sensitive sense of smell. If I have a friend round for coffee while she's at school or give them a lift in the car she knows immediately who it was. When we had a new bookcase on the landing she complained that our house smelled funny for weeks.

DS1 has had 2 sessions now, at the first she recommended a sensory assessment by an OT when we move and thought he had attachment issues, not parental, but with others in charge of him. He needs to feel secure and that he can trust them. The second visit she doesn't feel he is in the spectrum for autism, which is reassuring, she says hs is very bright and will do another 2 sessions with him. She will write a report for us to take to hopefully give his new schools etc.. a clear idea of support he needs to settle in. One thing that came out his he is very anxious about our move so we are spinning it positively and explaining why we are going to help him feel more comfortable.

I feel better that we are moving forward to help him. He's been good as gold over the past week and I struggle to see how he changes in group settings to the point of his exclusion. Even today, I went to pick up some vintage windows from perfect strangers and he happily chatted away to them and talked with her DH while I sorted out the transaction. Maybe as he is with me he feels safe if I do, but on his own has difficulty determining who he can trust.