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Difference between a naughty child and a child with behavioral issues

9 replies

peppajay · 09/07/2013 21:59

How do you know the difference between a child with a behavior disorder such as ADHD or aspergers and a blatantly naughty child?

My son has behavioural issues mainly at school when routine isn't been adhered to and also with anyone else who looks after him. He is comfortable with me and his behavior is better never perfect unless we are at home in his own environment then he is the sweetest most well behaved boy you could imagine. He thrives on routine and logic and he no sense of empathy for others. School think there is something there and I have thought for along time that there be some kind of disorder there.

However my family just label him as a naughty disobedient boy and say it is because I don't disipline him. He lashes out if he get stressed ie in busy places, so instead of walloping him one I get down to his level and try to talk to him. My dad wants nothing more to do with him until he behaves and if that was his son he would be locked in his room until he learnt what he did is unacceptable. I did give them some literature the school passed on about Aspergers and my mum couldn't read past the first paragraph as she says it is total piffle a naughty child is a naughty child end of. They think the reason he is like he is because I do the positive parenting and try reasoning rather than smacking or shouting and that school are making him worse because they have learnt how to deal with his meltdowns and they should be stopping the meltdowns before they begin.

So how do I know if I am just a crap parent or he does genuinely have a behavior disorder? And are behavior disorders real or just an excuse to hide bad behavior??

OP posts:
TimidLivid · 09/07/2013 22:10

You already do know its just your parents making u doubt yourself. Read aspergers by tony attwood and you will understand in more depth

lougle · 09/07/2013 22:11

I rarely go out on a limb, but I'd say he has ASD.

You are meeting his needs at home. You've learned that if you give him a routine, a structure and clear rules, then he behaves. If he is thrown into chaos - changing school routines, plans which change, busy places where people move in all directions, then his behaviour deteriorates.

Your parents are expecting him to 'behave', but they aren't realising that in that situation, he is not in a position to control his behaviour. He is merely reacting to the stimulus around him.

What are you going to do? I'd suggest taking him to your GP and asking for a referral to a developmental paediatrician. Also, keep a diary of his behaviour, using the 'ABC' approach. 'A' is for Antecedent - what happened directly before (ie. busy environment). 'B' is 'Behaviour' - what did he do? 'C' is 'Consequence' of the behaviour.

Pop over to the SN board here and have a browse - you may find you identify with some of the issues people are discussing, or you may think 'that's not him at all.'

Goldmandra · 10/07/2013 09:55

The first thing to realise is that a child with ASD can also be naughty. They can work out when you're making allowances for their difficulties and use it to their advantage. Let's face it. What child wouldn't?

Meltdowns triggered by Autism tend to be as a result of something the child can't cope with. This could be a change in routine, sensory overload, too many social demands, etc. The meltdown is a way of releasing the emotions they can no longer tolerate. They are often totally overwhelmed and unaware of the reactions of those around them.

Tantrums which are bad behaviour tend to have a purpose. The child is acting out because they want something. They keep tabs on your responses and adjust their behaviour accordingly to try to make you give in.

Tantrums are usually reserved for people and places where the child feels safer to expresses him or herself.

Meltdowns occur more around other people and in public because those are the places overloads are more likely to occur. A common exception to this is where children shut down their emotions outside home because their anxiety level is too high to allow them to express themselves where they don't feel totally safe. These children often repress their emotions until they get home at which point they explode.

There is a saying that you can sure Autism by putting the person who has it in a room on their own surrounded by what things that interest them. Your little boy is probably very compliant at home because the things which cause him the biggest problems simply don't exist there.

Your approach is the right one regardless of whether his behaviour is triggered by Autism. Walloping doesn't solve anything and neither does shutting children in their rooms. In fact shutting a child with Autism in their room could be a reward. My daughters would certainly see it that way.

Have a think about your behaviour management at home. Say you wanted him to tidy some toys away and he didn't want to do it. Do you have behaviour management strategies that you could use to ensure that he did it?

Now think about when you are out in a busy place. Do the same strategies work there?

If his response in the two situations is wildly different that suggests that the problem is his response to the environment, not your parenting.

If you couldn't manage his behaviour anywhere, including at home, that might be an indicator that at least some of his behaviour is about your management of it. However, some children can have behaviour triggered by Autism and made worse by poor behaviour management so you still can't rule it out.

Your description seems to be of a little boy who wants to comply and will do so whenever possible, i.e. in a calm, familiar, predictable environment, but who doesn't have the tools to understand and manage the overload which sends him into meltdown when the environment is challenging.

I agree that you should see your GP and ask for a referral to CAMHS or a Developmental/Community Paediatrician for further assessment. Keep that diary because that's your evidence that your behaviour management is consistent and that the outbursts are triggered by external factors that make him anxious/stressed.

In the meantime read more about Aspergers and keep doing what you are doing.

DeWe · 10/07/2013 10:17

If the school are raising concerns that he has sn then I would suspect it's not your parenting.
He certainly has some of the signs of asperges/asd.

My ds (nt) behaves much better at home and with me simply because I know the triggers for him and am watching one child if those triggers may come up. The school has up to 30 children for the teacher to watch, so may miss the trigger point.
eg. If a child (who was playing nicely 10 seconds before) suddenly snatches the car ds had just put in the position he wanted. I can step in quickly, and say "oh look, ds, why don't you put this different car over here..." and the moment is averted.
At that moment the teacher may be listening to another child read, keeping an eye on the child in the corner who said they felt sick and making sure that the group in the corner who are painting are not spilling too much paint. Plus have 3 other boys in the class who are equally likely to lash out as my ds... it's quite forgivable that they don't see my ds at that moment Wink

What I would say is look at your parenting:
You've explained to him why you don't want him to throw his drink on the floor. You know he understood. He does it again splashing your dad liberally with the liquid, looking at you to check you're watching.
Does he get a consequence (removal of drink/time out/apology)or do you say "Oh he's so cute..." look round for everyone to agree with you and get him another drink?
If it's the latter, then look at your parenting. If, as I suspect, it's the former, then ignore your parents.

Kleinzeit · 10/07/2013 14:28

It?s very sad that your father doesn?t want to spend time with your DS, and that your parents are blaming your parenting. But it can be very hard for grandparents to accept that their grandchildren might have additional needs or disabilities, as well as being hard to accept that different parenting methods are as good if not better than theirs. If you use different discipline from theirs, then it may be a lot easier and less painful for them to blame your parenting methods or the school?s discipline, than to accept that their grandson has any real difficulties.

If the school also think there may be ?something there? then the best way to find out for sure either way is as lougle and goldmandra suggest, to ask for a referral from your GP.

Whatever else you do or don?t do, and whether your DS has Asperger?s or not, don?t wallop a child who is very logical, is prone to meltdowns and who lacks empathy! Walloping him will only make it much harder to teach him that it?s not OK for him to wallop other people when they annoy him or do something he thinks is ?wrong?.

And if you hold firm and keep doing what you?re doing, hopefully in time your parents will come to accept the situation for what it is.

MadameSin · 10/07/2013 17:52

Peppa try posting this on the Special Needs Children board, may get a few more opinions

Justfornowitwilldo · 10/07/2013 17:56

Yes, beat some empathy into him Hmm. Your parents are being ridiculous. How's your father with empathy?

Eyesunderarock · 10/07/2013 17:57

'And are behavior disorders real or just an excuse to hide bad behavior??'

What do you think?

Sparklysilversequins · 10/07/2013 18:04

Your parents sound like conditional arseholes quite frankly Angry.

I can't add to the great advice you've had but agree if the school are thinking it and passing literature to you then they strongly think there's something going on. I have two children with ASD and have been on that road for the last 7 years.

My family were similar to yours (not quite as bad though) and I have never really forgiven them. They made a very scary situation much much worse. My advice is ignore them entirely, your Dad refuses to see him? Say "Excellent Dad because quite honestly we can do without your negative and ignorant attitude while we negotiate this difficult situation, if you can't be supportive then I am glad you've seen enough sense to remove your self from the situation". My Dad has barely spoken to me for three years because I refused to allow him to discipline my dc in the way he deemed appropriate.

I agree that you should post on the SN Board. Their support and the knowledge that there are loads of us in this boat helped to accept the hand we've been dealt more than anything else. Send me a PM if you feel like it, it's all so fresh to me that I would be glad to chat to you about it Smile.

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