Don't want my dd ending up at the psychiatrist when she's my age ......

[susanmt]

I'm sure pretty much all of you know now that I'm suffering from pretty bad PND following the birth of dd2 10 weeks ago. At the moment I am taking some pretty high doses of antidepressants and also having a course of psychotherapy with my psychiatrist, with the rider that if it doesn't work then I will have ECT.
What I am most worried about is the effect of my depression on the kids. Dd1 is 4 today, ds was 2 on Tuesday (hold all the jokes about only doing it once a year, I've heard them all )
In the last couple of weeks dd1 has been very clingy, regressive (wet the bed and her pants on a couple of occasions) and seems stressed and is looking for a lot of reassurance. She's always asking 'are you alright Mummy' (I am crying a lot but genuinely try to keep it away from her as much as I can) and she wants loads of cuddles, and keeps asking if I have to go back to the hospital (I had 9 admissions during my pregnancy and 1 since). They are spending a lot of time at the childminder as I can't manage to look after 3 children at the moment, I'm not coping with it.
I know children are very sensitive. I don't want her to be like me, sitting in a psychiatrists office at age 33, moaning about her mother.
Has anyone any tips for de-stressing a 4yo? Ds seems immune to it all, he's his normal cheery self!. We do massage after the bath and I am trying to do as much of the 'nice' evening things like reading stories, to spend nice quality cuddly time with her. But I can't get it out of my mind that my illness is, through no fault of my own, damaging her in some way.

Any input?

I think a lot of 4 yo would regress with a new baby in the house, I also think a lot of mother's wouldn't remember to read stories and do massage when they had a 10 week old and a 2 yo to look after.

Please don't beat yourself up and link everything to your depression. You sound as if you are doing a pretty amazing job to me FWIW.

I hope the treatments work and you feel much better soon.

I have had PND 3 times and truly understand. I had hormone injections the 3rd time straight after the birth but the PND set in as soon as my periods started (as that's when the hormone therapy stopped) - but i look back now feeling 'lucky' that at least for once i enjoyed those early weeks (even down to being able to 'bother' to change vests/babygros etc) and can even remember going for walks with the pram in the sunshine-however i also still went on to waking up at night and searching the bedroom drawers incase i had shut him in there aand feeling unable to even carry him up and down stairs incase i dropped him - so in my own way - though never admitted to hospital- i understand.
NOTHING will convince you how good you are with your children- only time. You are doing more with them than many mums who do not have PND...they are the ones spending time going out visiting friends to 'show' the new arrival- and then cleaning the home- keeping up with the housework- ready for vistors to see the 'new arrival'...YOU are the mum cuddling/reading and bathing your children....which is best???

When ds1 was born and i had the beginiings of PND and i was kept in for 2 weeks after his birth- i remember as if it was yesterday cuddling him and whispering to him "if youu're still happy about me when you are 9 then i'll know i haven't affected you " ( i grew up with a depressed/anxiety driven mum so resent her for taking my childhood away....so you see I read the title of this thread and understood 100% your concern) Then when he got to 9....i realised that he did 'still' love me....i then realised that i would always be looking for signs that i have not ruined them.

They are now 4,7 and 10 and every now and then i ask them things like 'What do i do that makes you happy/sad/laugh?' etc.... i then tell them what they do tahat makes me feel the same to... by doing this i can then make sure i TRY to do and not do the things they say....this amkes me feel i am doing a good job (despite the fact that i am still seeing psychiatrists/psychologists regularily).....and it's much better doing this than simply asking them 'do you love mummy?' which is what is going on in your head....my ds2 says when i make him a cup of tea straight after he asks (instead of forgetting so he has to keep reminding me) -then he feels loved!!! Ds1 reckons that he feels most loved if I let him have a 'tray of snacks' for his supper....amazing how 'simple' it is for them to 'feel loved'

Hope this helps.....I post mainly on the Special Needs threads as 1 if not 2 of my sons have Asperger's syndrome (autism)...and if you read my posts you will see just how down i can get- but it is coming on mumsnet which keeps me going- and now in the middle of a crisis i actually find myself thinking' i'll post on mumsnet'- sometimes i feel 'where' i post is not always relevent- but it's just that there are some wonderful people on that thread and i feel to post anywhere else on mumsnet just wouldn't be the same!!!

Be kind to yourself- and remember - YOU ARE DOING MORE THAN MANY OTHER 'WELL' MUMS!!!!

Thanks both of you. I don't go to the SPecial Needs thread much mrsforgetful as all you great mums with special needs kids really put the rest of us to shame. The eldest of my younger brothers (does that make sense) has fragile X and Aspergers is part of that, so you also must be doing a great job to cope with 2 - I saw how hard my parents worked with him.

I feel a little better - dh said 'at least you are worried - if youweren't THEN there would be something wrong' - and I think he's right.

Though it is frustrating to be aware and worry about how you feel etc- it IS better than being totally unaware- and yes DH is right- to not worry would be more worrying ! (now does THAT make sense!!!!)
I know nothing about fagile x- will look it up !
DS1 also has ADHD....but despite it all i am lucky as all 3 can communicate their needs so well (though sometimes i wish they couldn't) and I am in deep respect for the parents of the children i read on the threads who cannot speak or communicate- I think its soooo hard when the family understand and are thrilled with progress- then some 'ignorant' or innocent passerby cannot understand- we had that with ds1 and 3 - but they are all excellent chatterboxes now!

Thought I'd copy my own message from my PND thread on health, cos it fits here too :

I just thought I'd share with you something dd1 said today which has done wonders for mey self esteem!
It's her birthday, and she's 4 (I'm feeling a heck of a lot better than I did 4 years ago at this time, I can tell you!!!). After we had opened all her presents this morning and put her new Angeline Ballerina bedclothes on her bed (present from us, it was what she wanted) she gave me a big hug and said 'You're the best mummy I knew you would get it all right for my birthday. I feel 4 right down to my toes!' Even the most severely deprssed Mum couldn't help but be moved by this. Being a bad Mum is what I am afraid of, and in someone's eyes I'm being a great Mum, at least!

I can't be doing too much wrong, can I?

What a lovely thing to say Susanmt! What a delightful and expressive child you have. I agree you should take a bow!

I saw that on the other thread and was going to say something there and then thought I'd come here instead...Susan, my ds saw me at a really low ebb in Summer 2002, when he was 3. It did affect him then and we got regression and clinginess but it did pass as I got better, just like you will. Your dd clearly loves you to bits and knows you love her, that's what counts.
It's funny what you do instinctively isn't it - I gave him massages then too, for the first time since he was a babe. It calmed us both down.
Your illness is not damaging her - you are a great mother.

Now that is what i'm talking about!!!
XXX

susanmt, I really feel for you. It's hard enough being ill let alone feeling that your being ill is making someone you love very much miserable.

I've been ill lately and dd, even though only 16 months, has become very clingy too. She now wants to be carried around a lot and says my name all the time. I can tell she's feeling insecure.

I see an analyst and spoke to him about this and he said the best thing was to be open as possible. Tell her 'mummy's feeling a bit sad but it's nothing to do with you' sort of thing if she seems to notice. He said this way kids grow up knowing that their mum is sad now and then and that's how she is. Whereas if you try to hide it too much (I know some hiding is necessary) they pick up on the tension but don't understand what's happening and that has a worse effect on them.

I agree with him. My father was a severely depressed man but no-one ever talked about it. All we knew was that sometimes we could play with him and sometimes we had to leave him alone and he would skulk round the house quietly. It was weird. We adored him but it left my brother and I very insecure. If someone had just explained to us that he was feeling sad and wanted to be on his own, I think everything would have been different.

I think dh is right, you are able to reflect on what's happening, that has to be a good sign!

hi susanmt, hope are feeling better today.
I think mrsforgetful has made a good point. When I had PND, DS1 got plenty of cuddles because I didn't feel like rushing around the house doing things.

As for your older child, you are probably doing much better than you think. Just being with you in a lovely warm secure family means the most to a child. We often take this for granted, but when you compare it to children in care who don't have that love and security, you see how much it means. My 4yr old is sometimes clingy and regressive when my attention is diverted with the baby. I'm sure your illness is not affecting her. The fact that you are aware of it means that you are unlikely to cause it to happen, IYSWIM. A mother who is blank-faced and unresponsive for a long time could be damaging, but this doesn't sound like you. From your post, you do more with them than I sometimes manage in a day.