What can I do to stop this increasingly frustrating and worrying problem?

[MoRaw]

Hi

I've been getting very stressed over my 18 months old boy's sleeping. I know that he should be getting around 11.5 hours at night but he barely gets 9 hours.

It takes forever for him to go to sleep. So even though he is ready for bed around 7:30-8:30, he will not nod off until about 9:30 or 10pm. I wake him up at about 7am as we need to be out of the house by 7:30. I get so frustrated and I am always close to tears. I worry that he is not getting enough sleep and just don't know what to do. My husband and I are always so tired and I find myself almost always close to falling asleep at my desk. I cannot concentrate and even in one-to-one meetings with others I can barely keep focused and my eyes open. This is particularly worrying as I am the senior manager.

I am wondering how many hours other young ones really get as opposed to how much they should get. Does you little one normally get the recommended hours of sleep? Also, how do you get them to fall asleep quickly?

Does he nap in the day?

He gets around 2.5 to 3 hours of sleep during the day (in one go around 12:30 after lunch)

My 18 month old gets 12 hours at night, and 2 hour nap in the day.
Is your lo napping late in the day? I always make sure mine is awake by 3.30 latest, so she's tired for 7pm bedtime. I think a lot of sleep issues are due to routine. Children get in the routine of going to sleep at 10, they get used to it. It's like us suddenly going to bed 3 hours earlier than we usually do. Maybe reduce/ withhold nap in the day for a couple of days, so that your lo is exhausted by 7, and goes straight to sleep. It may be just an issue of re setting the routine.
I do strongly believe children need sleep to develop to there full potential. An 18 mth old should get between 13-15 hours sleep in every 24 hours. Having said that I always take these figures with a pinch of salt; if your lo is happy and content through the day, it may be that their getting enough sleep for them. They may just not need much sleep! I know if my lo only slept 9 hours at night she'd be miserable all day, she def needs more!

I'd wake him up after 2 hours during the day, tbh. That, plus establishing a boring routine (toothbrush, bath, story, bed), and gradually beginning the routine earlier each night, as Seb101 suggests, might help.
I don't see why you are suffering from sleep depriavation, though, if your ds sleeps from 10pm - 7 am. How much sleep do you feel would be helpful to you?

DD is about the same age and probably gets just over 11 hours at night, 12 on a good night, though we are fortunate it is solid sleep, and then maybe an hour in the daytime. If she's at home we might get her to have 2 hours worth of naps, but generally when she's in childcare she will only have an hour. I know it's probably not quite enough but she is happy and, while she's tired by bathtime, she's not exhausted and overwrought. So yes, guidelines are just guidelines.

How does your DS go to sleep? What's his routine like? Do you put him in his cot at 8 and leave him to it, or are you waiting for him to go to sleep before you put him in bed?

Also, just to echo awesome, I am curious why you say you are so tired. Is it because your DS is still with you until 10pm so you are staying up later to get things done? Otherwise you have the potential to sleep from 11-7ish. I'm just asking as I've recently been feeling exhausted even though I am getting to sleep through 11-7, and I've just started taking iron tablets as I suspect it is that (people keep mentioning I look pale too). Only a thought.

I don't see either how that amount of sleeping is affecting you? Do you put him to be in his cot at bedtime? Can he play there until he falls asleep? That is what my 2 year old does. Goes to bed at 7pm, i sometimes hear him after that but i don't go in there and he never cries until the morning. What time are you going to be and getting up?
I can't see how those hours of him sleeping affect your sleep at all? Do you want to go to bed much before 10pm?
If he isn't sleeping more then he doesn't need more!

Thanks all.

Well I wish I could go off to sleep soon after he has fallen asleep but:
Paperwork to do
Catch up with emails
Catch up with family and friends
Tidying up and various other bits and pieces to do.

That plus being so stressed with the difficulties in getting him to sleep means that it is hard to switch off.

We normally climb into bed around 11:30. By the time we nod off, I reckon that takes us to 12 midnight. I am up by 5am to fit in a bit of exercise (my husband by 6am), get myself ready for work, etc.

I see you've got this thread running in Chat as well, and I agree with some of the suggestions on that. You say you chat to your DS while you are putting him to sleep? That could well be what is keeping him awake. DD is ready for bed when I take her up but if I stay in the room interacting with her, she wouldn't sleep until she passed out.

Could you try the wind down bedtime routine - bath, milk, teeth, story, bed - and then start to leave him in his cot? He may take a while to fall asleep but if he's not crying then let him play until he falls asleep. Then he'll be in bed by 8-8.30 and you've got another few hours of your evening back.

well, there is your answer...don't get up at 5am! And go to bed earlier...i don't understand though, are you actually putting him to bed at 10pm ? Or is he going at a normal time?

I agree about the exercise. In an ideal world, if you were going to bed at 10 and sleeping soundly until 5, then by all means get up and exercise. But if you are struggling at the moment because of lack of sleep, can you not put that aside or limit it to once or twice a week until your DS is settled?

I think most children, once they are past feeding to sleep, are capable of being taught to self-settle, and I am sure there are plenty of threads here which have great advice for encouraging your DS to do that, but I expect it won't be a quick fix. It could take a few weeks of gradual withdrawal to teach him - in which case, getting you more sleep for the next month of so is a priority, which could mean temporarily giving up on early morning exercise, or limiting your emails/calls with friends and family in the evenings, or getting a cleaner/asking cleaner to do a few more hours, so that you can focus on your DS and your sleep?

I compete in 10k runs so need to do some training. Mind you, I don't get much time to fit in any runs. Most of my morning exercise just involves keeping fit so that I can at least have some stamina when I do get to run.

I have tried fitting in exercise during the evenings but because he goes to bed so late, it becomes impossible.

I think I will start changing how we do things around bedtime. Make it calmer. I will try and fit the exercise/running at nights which means when I hit the sack I won't need to wake up until about 6:30.

All sounds easy. Putting it into practice will be another thing.

Thinking about it, I have realised that his inability to fall asleep even when he is tired is mainly down to me. On the rare occasions when I am late getting home, my husband gets him off to sleep in good time.

so what time do you put him to bed upstairs on his own?

As I mentioned in my original post Pendipidy, he is ready for bed between 7:30/8:30 but he won't get to sleep until 9:30/10 and on some odd occasions it can even go near 11pm. I also mentioned that at the moment I do not leave him on his own.

I think you need to cut down the day time nap, that sounds like a lot. DTs are 22mo now but since they were one I don't let them have more than an hour and fifteen minutes and always wake them by 130 so they are ready for bed at 7, any more than that and they would be up until 9/10.

With 2.5-3 hour nap in daytime my 18 month olds would not have slept more than 9 hours at night. Sounds completely normal.

My 17mo sleeps 7.30-6.30 usually goes to sleep straight away so I know I'm lucky. He seems to be all over the place for naps though today and all over last weekend he had no nap in day not sure if he's slept at CMs this week but he might only have between 20-45mins if he does.

I think they need around 11-13hrs sleep per day at that age. Ds is nearly 21mo and lazy bugger gets 12-13hrs at night so usually only naps for 45mins once a day.

Have you tried an earlier bedtime? Ds has gone to bed at 6.30pm since he was tiny and on the very infrequent occasions he has gone later he's been overtired and much harder to settle.

I would also establish a routine and leave the room as soon as he's in the cot. Tonight, for example, ds was overtired and wouldn't lie down and cried when I moved to the door (we've been travelling today) but as soon as I actually left the room, he settled down!

Also, can you and dh alternate settling him? Then one of you can be getting on with evening tasks at least to enable an earlier bedtime for you too?

Why don't you leave him on his own? He needs to learn to fall asleep. You need to get stuff done. You can't sit in a toddler's room all bloody evening!

I put my ds to bed at 7 . Often he is awake for half an hour or so . He chats with his toys and then drops off. I would never sit with him he would expect me to do something .leave him in bed at 8 and run then . Leave monitor with dh . Also cut back daytime sleep to max 2 hours .

I have always had to make sure mine are up and about by 3 after a nap, otherwise they would never go to bed on time. Also, 3 hours in one go is a lot, and would have scuppered bedtimes with mine.

Have you tried a songs cd or storytape? That's what allowed me to leave the room and leave them to drop off on their own.

You being so tired is nuts tbh. You should aim to be able to pop him in his cot and leave him to burble off to sleep while you get your jobs/unwinding done, and then get an early night. If you're so tired it's impacting on your work, you need to leave the early waking for exercise for a bit and just train at weekends etc. It comes across as a bit illogical to be wedded to v v early morning fitness when you are so tired you cannot focus at work. You need to prioritise getting enough rest, and winding down a bit and then pick up the training.

I agree with cutting down the nap. At that age dd only napped an hour - any longer and she wouldn't be tired enough at night or else wake mega early. All kids are different - so you need to experiment with optimum napttimes. Also I would say you staying in yhe room may be contributing to him being unable to switch off. You are not being neglectful by teaching him to fall asleep by himself. It's an important skill to learn.

Mine had a 3-4 hour nap at that age and then around 9-10 hours on a night. He woke at 6 and I would get back down for a nap at about 9.30. When he woke I'd give him some luch and then we'd go somewhere for me to wear him out.

He'd go to bed at 7.30 and always took between 1/2 and 1 hour to go to sleep. He's 3.9 now and still takes a while to go to sleep. As he's in a bed he can play until he wants to go to sleep but is not allowed to come out of his room.

Why don't you want to leave him on his own...why do you think he is not falling asleep? he thinks you are there to entertain him or do something. just leave him and he will sleep!

Thanks to everyone for your advice.

Just to update:

Made significant changes to the atmosphere that precede his bedtime. No more lively chats between dad and me. I do play with him but I try to keep it as calm as possible. Generally, everything is now much calmer. I have also introduced some soothing music while he is dressing for bed, having his milk, and being put to sleep. The music appears to be having a noticeably good impact - it helps knock him out quickly. He now drops off to sleep well before 9pm (often between 8pm-8:30pm). He often sleeps all the way through to about 7am although I noticed on a couple of occasions he has woken up about 5am. That's not too much of a problem as it is easy to get him back to sleep. I now get to bed at around 10:30-11pm. So I am getting some much needed sleep.

Early days but it is VERY promising. I hope it continues.

He still sleeps 2 plus hours during the day. If bedtime becomes a challenge again, I will review the afternoon sleep. He is a very active playful boy so maybe he needs that extra sleep during the day.

Have a pleasant day all.