Am I being too sensitive and a bit precious?

[Spidder]

3.5 yr old Ds has been friends with a boy on our street since he moved in 2 years ago. The other boy is about 18 months older, so 2 school years and almost 5.

From the start, the other boy has bossed Ds about - which is ok; some kids are like that. However, I've always twitched about the boy's other behaviour: "Get off it now!", "That's mine", "you're not allowed on my grass" etc, which just seem ways of trying to control ds, but Ds loves him and they can play well together.

Ds has lately started joining in when the other older boy (6) on the street plays football. He's a bit rubish, but then, he's only 3. However yesterday, both older boys were out, but the one ds considers his particular friend kept telling ds that he wasn't allowed to play; he also kept seeming to try and shake him off, telling him to 'go away' at one point.

Now then, the teacher (and indignant mother) in me wanted to go and tell him to damn well play nice, but I don't know the protocol in 'real' life. I made do with telling ds that no one could stop him joining in and no one could stop him playing where he wanted. Apart from hating seeing ds being so crestfallen, I'm a little worried that this could shake his confidence. He goes to full time nursery, so is well used to other kids, but I think there's more emphasis on everyone playing together there.

Bugger, and I tried to keep it short. Sorry.

The older one is probably finding your ds too little. I had similar with my ds so found friends his age to play with instead.

Difficult. I think you probably ought to be managing your ds's expectations a bit- the other boy is older and it can be a real pain sometimes to modify your games to take littler ones into account. Particularly with something like football- when the difference between 3 and 5 is huge. The older ones should be allowed to play games at their level.

On the other hand, the older ones shouldn't be horrid - and if they are being really horrid, then you need to do something more radical. But if it's just a clumsy way of saying they don't want your little one tagging along all the time, could you say something like "Can you let x play for a bit- but remember he's only little and help him learn how to play. Then i'll come and collect him and later, maybe you could come across and play Y and have ice lollies in our garden?" Or something? (I speak as an ex irritating little sister, and the mother of a boy who always wanted to play with his big boy cousins.....)

I'd understand it if ds was trying to tag along, and to be honest, the older boy was quite understanding and tolerated him. What grates is that Ds's friend is usually desperate to play with him - to the point where he haunts us in the summer - but then just decides that he doesn't want him today. It seems more like girl behaviour than boy's - cutting people out etc.

Ds' friend is a bit of a pita, and if he wasn't a neighbour, I'd discourage the friendship. I've had to bite my tongue on a few occasions where he's shouted at his parents, although I don't when he tries it on me - or when he wouldn't let any of the kids on the bouncy castle at ds' birthday in September.

I'm always out with ds (and his 18 month old sister), and am quite conscious of ds making a nuisance of himself, although generally he's just happy to play out in the vicinity of other kids. Ds has a couple of little mates his own age, but we spend a lot of time playing out in the street cos there are a few kids.

Sorry but I found: "It seems more like girl behaviour than boy's - cutting people out etc." Very offensive, especially as you say you are a teacher.

To be honest, I think the older boy is happy to pay with your son when bored, but finds him limiting when he has other options. The will be especially true when paying a game like football. The older boy is only 5 so you can't expect him to act with all the sensitivity etc. of a teenager.

From the experience of my own children, so e times they play nicely with a younger child, sometimes they find them annoying. Even though this playing is in a shared space, not everyone has to be involved. This is a good lesson to learn before school

Two school years is a huge gap at that age. Dd1 had friends 15 months older, but two school years difference, and, at that age, the gap was very obvious. They'd play with her, but she was definitely the little one tagging round, not that she minded. They even spoke to her in a little baby voice. Once she went to school the gap mattered less, until they went up to secondary, when the gap again widened again until she started too. She has been friends with them all that time, but at those times she was clearly the younger one tagging round, rather than a mutral friend.

I was round at a friend's house yesterday where the children (15 down to 2) play outside together. She was commenting that each age slightly bosses the younger ones around when playing together, and that when they split into groups it's usually basically by age. They were a lovely group together, as I could see when watching, looking out for each other, but there was definitely the older ones in charge.

The football, I would have said to ds that we had to go and do X in 5 minutes, and asked the older two if he could join in for 5 minutes before we go. And timed it carefully. Usually most groups are happy to let a younger one join in for a short time, not just "later", knowing that they will be able to be on their own shortly. Later, for a child, is eternity, and may well come after their parents have fetched them in. And then you thank them for playing so nicely.

Also ime the younger boy saying he couldn't play, may well have come from the older boy. "Tell him he can't play..." I've noticed comes in boys play just as much as girls. Older ones are quite adapt in realising that they shouldn't really say it, so get another who will to do their dirty work for them.

Yes OP! Please don't label certain unattractive behaviours as 'girl behaviours' - it was a little bit sexist! IME at this age girls and boys are equally capable of all the behaviours that upset us parents.

I do feel your pain though and I don't think you're being precious. My LO (just 2) is desperate to be friends with the big girls (3yrs old) and they quite often take the mickey out of her for her bib or her nappy. I can obviously get rid of one but the other will take time. It hurts me more than her I think.

However as another poster said you do need to manage his expectations. It can be boring playing with smaller ones (my LO is equally dismissive of the 1year olds she meets). Your comments about no-one can stop him joining in are actually not true. Children are quite capable of excluding others and no child is obliged to let another play in their game (this is not the school playground). If he goes barging in saying you can't stop me joining in he's unlikely to make himself very popular!

I think a little bit of bribery for the big boys to humour him for a while as one poster said and then distraction elsewhere for your DS is a good balance until his football skills are improved.

Interesting discussion, but I'm really surprised at the idea of a 3 year old playing out on the street, let alone with older children. We live in a very rural area, so this isn't really an option. Is it quite usual in towns?

it depends where you live we are on a quiet culdesac with children in every house so yes they do (obviously under supervision)

OP on our road we have one boy who is a bit of a pain, if I don't feel comfortable then dd comes in. In our case I think he is jealous of the friendship the little ones have and is in his own way trying to join in.

With you there supervising is a bit different I think.