talk to me about night wakings and CIO please. Need advice and support at wits end.

[fishandlilacs]

I'm at wits end with DS 14m. Hes mix fed, Formula for naps and bedtime bottles plus 3 meals a day plus snacks and drinks and hes never ever slept through the night yet, the best he has ever done was about 8pm til 5 am. and that was once.

I co slept exclusively and breast fed exclusively for first 7m then he went into a cot in his room. he now goes in there fine at 7pm and he doesn't self settle all the time although he is getting better, but he goes to sleep quickly with a bottle and a cuddle. He sometimes wakes about 10pm but thats usually sorted with a bit of a pat and a bit of boob.

The problem is if he wakes in the early hours he stays awake. usually for at least 2 hours but as he gets older this is going to 3 and 4 hours. I cant leave him in his cot during this time because he wakes dd who has school. if i bring him in with me he just stays awake and kicks and rolls and headbutts and crawls around the bed. I am thinking of just not going into him tonight.

I am at a loss, thank god for my mum, she has been having the children for me once every few weeks to allow me and dh to catch up on sleep. but we cant go on like this.

He naps at 9.30 for 45-90 mins usually rarely more or less and more likely 45 min than 90.

he usually has another 20-30 mins around 2.30 pm this is usually in car or pram on way to school to pick up dd and he goes to bed at 7/7.30.

I have read and tried every gentle technique going, elizabeth pantley which worked so well for DD just seems to make him worse. If i keep going in to shush pat pick up cuddle etc he just gets more and more irate.

I had a bit of breakthrough The other night i was so tired and fractious and he wouldn't settle at bedtime that I had I had to leave him and come downstairs to have a bit of a cry and ranty weep at DH, I was just so frustrated. I had my teeth clenched so I came downstairs and left him crying in his cot, by the time i had finished my rant and weep and DH he was asleep-7 mins at most. This made me think that in this case a bit of CC/CIO might actually be a good thing. I dont like it but I cant go on like this.

Both naps today he has cried himself to sleep, it's taken less than 10 mins in each case.

Thanks for reading if you are still here apologies for long post

This will sound very harsh so I am prepared to get flamed but I'd leave him. I really would. You say yourself you can't go on like this. If this was your only child it would be different but you have another child to think of and look after in the day too.

My DS1 slept really really well at night but nap times were horrendous, I would pace around and rock him for aaaaages and then he'd wake up after only 30 mins and I'd need to do it all over again. By the time he was 17 months he weighed 30lbs and I just couldn't do it anymore. I tried shush pat, pick up put down, sitting with him and holding his hand, singing to him, not singing to him, gradual retreat, you name it but he screamed and cried. In the end after weeks and weeks of trying all the above I tried CC, even that didn't work because each time I went to him he got more and more hysterical. It doesn't work for highly strung or easily stimulated kids. Next, I told him it was time to sleep, put him in his cot, kissed him and I left the room. He cried. He screamed. After 8 minutes he was asleep. He slept for 2 hours in his cot. He had never done that for a nap before, ever! After that, every nap time I did the same. Each time he cried less until after a week he wasn't crying. He was finally settling himself and he wasn't overtired and irritable all day.

I would say if you are sure he is not ill, hungry, uncomfy then leave him.

All these gentle techniques are great, if they work. Sometimes you have to think of the long term benefits, how much better he and you will feel after proper sleep.

well he cried for about 20 mins at bed but hes asleep now. DH put him down, gave bottle and cuddle and kissed goodnight and walked away. he was really clingy when he woke from afternoon nap but thats normal for him after 3pm.

The real trial will be how well i cope when I am needing to sleep later. Pray he simply doesn't wake. Even if he goes til 5am I will be happy. Making sure I have a clock visible because 5 mins crying can feel like an eternity in the middle of the night.

In my experience it's fairly easy to tell if they are cross or if they're really upset. Our DD has gone through some vile phases of waking around 4.40 and nothing settling her. In our extreme exhaustion we ended up leaving her to it after checking there was nothing we could do for her (in our bed she just kicked and scratched us, wouldn't be cuddled, and we just couldn't cope. It was torture bit after a few days she started sleeping better. Nowadays I can easily tell when she's scared or wants a cuddle and I will go in, or if she is just having a shout, then I leave her.

Sorry should say she's nearly 2 now but I've been confident to leave her to it for a few mins since about 9 months.

Last night didn't go to plan at all. He woke at 11 and DH plugged in a bottle and he went straight back to sleep. He woke at 3am utterly screeching the place down. I tried patting him for a few minutes but he was beyond himself so I lifeted him a cuddle and I struggled with him screaming and writihng and arching his back in my arms for a further 45 mins before I took him into our bed, he settled with boob and he went straight back to sleep. He was beside himself and I really didn't know what else to do-there was no calming him.

But naps today he has self settled both times with no problems, not even a squeak, just bottle, in cot, kiss, nap time. So I guess that progress from yesterday-hopefully it's the trend in the right direction

well, he slept through last night, went to bed, chatted a bit, didn't cry went to sleep. I didn't hear from him til 6am.

I hope it's a breakthrough.