Help, finding established breast feeding tough....

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My 4 month old baby has been pretty good since day one at settling himself and found his thumb at about 3 weeks and was pretty much sleeping through. He picked up a cold however from my toddler around 3 weeks ago and has since regressed back to waking 3 or 4 times in the night and will not settle at all but screams the house down unless a feed him to sleep. I am at a loss to know what to do, I'm breast feeding but he is a big baby (already in size 6/9 month clothes!) and I'm quite petite. I wonder whether it may partly be down to hunger but Im never confident, especially at bedtime that he has had enough milk as supply always seems low at the end of the day no matter what I so (drinking lots of water) if I new he was full to be honest I'd leave him to cry as we did with my toddler when he was a baby but his cries to sound like he's hungry. Problem is he will take a bottle if its my milk expressed but for some reason at the moment I can't express any and my body only seems to to react to him and he will not take formula so I'm at a loss to know what to do. He's currently laid on me as I can't bear to put him down and here him crying again as this evening he has woke about 8 times...I used to pop him down and he'd just go to sleep therefore we find it difficult to comfort him in our arms as he just thrashes around unhappy...any help appreciated!!!

It sounds like the dreaded 4 month sleep regression. He could also be teething and the pain is waking him. Then he's feeding for comfort not hunger instead.

If he is gaining weight well, then he is getting enough. But it's so easy to doubt yourself when you cannot see what they're getting.

You could try slathering some teething gel on him and seeing if he'll settled easier?

You might want to think about getting this moved into the breastfeeding topic instead by mn. But this website can be great I find: kellymom.com/bf/got-milk/supply-worries/low-supply/

I had this with my first and to I expressed at the end iof every feed during the day which firstly increased my supply but more importantly meant I had a bottle of expressed milk to offer at bedtime.

I'd then breastfeed as normal and then offer the bottle. I only did it for a week as it satisfied my anxiety that he wasn't getting enough from the boob of an evening. Could be an option for you?

It could just be a comfort thing or possibly a growth spurt. These babies don't like us getting too comfortable

Oh, sounds tough! I had a tough time with both of mine with various sleep problems, "practising" new things with daytime naps seemed to help - partly because I felt I was creating a new habit, partly because if whatever I was trying didn't work at least it was daytime and nobody else disturbed!

If he's wanting to feed to sleep, maybe one nap a day try to do without feeding? i think maybe I'd be wanting to do a bedtime bottle like you suggest, perhaps trying different formula or practising formula in the day? Or maybe tricks to help you express like having him with you? I also vaguely remember 4m as a growth spurt just before "official" weaning age. If he's already big, is it too soon for weaning?? I think a few years ago weaning at 4m was standard?
Good luck

No please do not wean at 4 months. It will get better again. This too shall pass.

The people on breast and bottle feeding will be lots of help. They are very knowledgeable.
From the little I know, by about 4 months your boobs no longer have that full vs empty feeling. You don't have low supply, your body has just settled into it.
At this age the baby has a growth spurt. In days gone by they'd start solids to suppliment them but really what a baby needs is more breast milk or formula, its got all the best nutrition for them at this point.

Perhaps he does need comfort for illness or teething pain. Breastfeeding isn't only about nutritional needs, its psycological needs too.

If it helps, I'm up about million times a night too at the moment. It's helping to have him in the co-sleeper cot as he doesn't wake when he knows we are close. I think they are getting more aware at this age and need to know they haven't been forgotten about.

Sorry just read properly you can't express so my post is useless! Sorry.

Stick with it though 4 months is a notoriously difficult stage. It feels like forever now but by 6 months I'm sure things will have improved

Being ready for weaning isn't anything to do with being big. A big baby needs more of whatever is appropriate at that age.

It is the four month sleep regression. Pumping output drops off sharply too around this time and you may have noticed your boobs not feeling "full" between feeds any more? All expected and just a sign that you've switched from hormonally driven milk production to supply and demand. Don't worry! He will still be getting milk.

It's not a sign of being ready for weaning, and weight gain isn't a good way to judge supply either at this time as the usual pattern is for breastfed babies' weight gain to "plateau" - this should be less of a worry with the new chart in your red book, but not all babies follow the curve exactly. It's better to look at overall signs of wellness and amount of nappies produced.

I also think it may be helpful to you to co-sleep for the duration or at least keep him downstairs in the evenings to cope with cluster feeding. But rest assured that this is normal and they grow out of it.

Remember also the more you feed, the more you make. Drinking water etc won't make any difference, so just drink normally. Your body knows what it's doing, and size is no issue. He's got that big on your milk!

Thanks! He has definitely been getting enough and he was very content but both with my first baby and this one I always struggle with the last feed of the day and bring confident they are not crying from hunger. Don't think it's teeth as hasn't been showing any signs but anything is worth a shot! He just seems like a completely different baby to the one I had three weeks ago even when he was poorly he was occasionally settling himself so my gut reaction is there is something stopping him going to sleep rather than him forgetting how to...I feel like my body is at its full capacity for milk making!

My children teethed very early. So I always mention that just in case.

It does sound like the 4 month sleep regression. It will improve again. Both my babies often fussed in the evening. I think Bertie has the right idea on cluster feeding downstairs. Go with it, it will get better again.

I always used to look at me first, if they were unsettled and think it was my milk supply. But you're doing all the right things. Do not doubt yourself.

I also found as they begun to come down with a cold that they were unsettled and then all of sudden 3 days later, their nose would begin to run. And I'd think 'ahhh that's why'.

If he seems hungry, he's probably hungry. Stick a boob in it is my solution, feeding more will make more milk and you'll get through the growth spurt.

Well he is eventually in bed, for now at least! I have been feeding him alot since he was poorly but it doesn't seem to have made any difference to my milk. When he was sleeping through I'd find I'd have lots of milk in the morning so I'd express then give him a bottle at his bedtime feed so I would know he was nice and full, since he's started waking again at night I'm finding I don't have any to express. He's also not settling well at naps which again 9 times out if 10 I would pop him down wide awake and he'd go off to sleep without a peep but not anymore! We have had lots of sleep issues with my first which I was hoping with number 2 being so settled until recently we were going to have a better time of it, seems he has other ideas and I'm quite upset about it!

At the risk of a flaming I'll confess that at about 4 months when mine began to not settle for daytime naps. I'd use PUPD. Only if I was certain that they were tired, well fed and not in pain.

I just found that if they were over tired, they were harder to settle at night. So I made sure they slept well in the day.