In a dark place and need some reassurance

[SharkSkinThing]

I need some perspective, and some common sense replies from other parents who also have spirited toddlers, because I am getting very close to having some sort of situation where I do something I regret. Someone, please tell me this is all normal and that it gets easier.

My son is 2.5. Never been a great sleeper, only now just going through the night and wakes very, very early (between 4.15 and 5.15am most days), and still has a day time nap. Lots of work and help from a sleep specialist to get him to this point, so that?s a positive.

But he seems to be so much harder work than other children in terms of personality. He is defiant to the point of insanity, and doesn?t seem to give a monkey ?s uncle about any kind of threat or discipline I use. I follow every rule you?re supposed to ? calm, consistent, carrying out said threat. He just ramps it up, hits me, throws things, runs off (and I put the reins on if he does that, too dangerous to have him walking anywhere otherwise) and generally creates chaos and carnage.

He is with a child-minder 3 days a week, and is totally calm with her. He?s a great eater and has no problem concentrating. He?s a very active child, lots of fresh air and walks along the beach etc.

What worries me is that I?m frequently having moments when I am starting to shout at him. He woke at 4.15am yesterday, and refused to sleep on the drive home from soft play. By this point we had both been awake for 8 hours and I was desperate for a break. But he just kept taking his arms out of the car seat and messing about. I pulled over and screamed, literally screamed in his face that I hated him and that I didn?t want to be his Mummy anymore.

Can someone please tell me that this is normal, that we all blow up occasionally and suggest ways of me controlling my anger in these situations? I often have to lock myself in the kitchen and cry because he?s being so naughty and not listening (or just doing the opposite of what I ask him to do) that if I don?t remove myself I will shout again. I?m also starting to use the F word around him when he kicks off, which I am deeply ashamed of. He?s a bright child but I get so wound up when he just destroys toys/days out/the house that I feel he must hate me.

I jokingly tell people that I wish I hadn?t had him. But I?m not joking. I don?t enjoy being a parent and if I could undo it all, I would. Am I out of control?
Sorry to drone on, but any advice would be great. Thanks.

I second what Lavender said about always having snacks and a cup of juice for him to have. Being hungry and thirsty makes everyone grumpy!

Also, you said about him being 9lb 7oz and back to back. Having a traumatic birth experience is a hard thing and can cause memories for a long time. But you did so well and I'm sure you're a great mum and that he's a lovely boy.

My 2nd DC was a similar weight and back to back. I delivered her without intervention and had a great birth experience.... the MW was very impressed with me, and said if it had been my first baby it would have been much much harder. So please don't think that just because you had a bad experience with DC1 that any other kids you might have in the future will also = a bad experience.

Hi Shark, just wanted you to know you are not alone! I have 3 sons and DS2 is my 'spirited' one. He is now 3yrs 10mnths and has only recently started to get a bit easier. To be honest he's still a total nightmare, but he's alot easier to cope with and the good times are coming more and more often.

When I had DS1 I can honestly say I only got stressed with him once when he was little, but with DS2 it's once every 10minutes. He's aggressive, defiant, rude, doesn't listen, destructive, always hurting his poor brothers or shouting at me. The structure of nursery has helped him to calm down a little and alot of repetition throughout our day helps. He's also very outdoorsy and full of energy, just like your son.

To be honest unless someone has had a child like this they cant even begin to comprehend how hard it is. Nothing could have prepared me for having a child like him. It's emotionally and physically exhausting! I'd happily look after 10 of my other children than one of DS2! I love him with all my heart and he is very loving and funny, but everything is on his terms.

Like the other posters have said... It will get easier as your child gets older. Your son won't necessarily get easier, but there will be nursery then school and as a parent you will find ways of coping with it. I still count the seconds till bedtime, but we also do have fun together now, which a year ago I didn't even think was possible. Hang on in there Hun!

Thanks everyone. Such great comments and advice. You must all be bored of me by now! I can?t thank you enough for listening and offering some workable solutions. I feel a million times better than I did on Wednesday.

Sleep specialist's advice was to get him to bed early (she offered this when I first went to see her when DS was a year old, and was due to go back to work). DP wouldn't agree, as it meant he wouldn?t see him, so we ended up compromising and DS goes up for a bath between 6 ? 6.30pm, and is asleep by 7.15pm. I?ve just had to learn to live with that, and hope once DS a bit older it will all even out.

DP is not on-board at all with trying things out, it?s always me who has to persevere with changing things and it was me who got DS sleeping through the night (finally). If he knew I still contacted the sleep specialist he?d be annoyed! But I figure, well, you?re not the one at home with him, so I?ll just get on with trying this and see what happens!

The nap timing is very interesting, and I?m going to try that, push him to have a later nap, even if he?s been awake since 4.45am! I?m going to aim for 12.30pm (instead of 11.30am) and see if that helps. That doesn?t seem too scary, and fits with the CM?s timings too. He only sleeps in the car on the way back from an activity, so it means tacking on something extra, but I can work that out.

We do all the other stuff, like going for a walk at 3pm, and lots (and lots) of snacks and drinks, and he has CBeebies from 4.30pm whilst I make dinner. I feel like I'm at least doing something right, as you;ve all suggested it! Then after dinner we play and read, tidy up etc. and DP is generally home around 6.15pm and we go up for bath at 6.30pm.

It really does help to know I?m not alone. It?s very true, unless you have a child who wakes early, you don?t understand. Your day is so much longer than everyone else?s, it doesn?t seem fair!

Still ? you know it?s Friday, when you?re putting wine in the fridge at breakfast time so it?s properly cold by 7.30pm! xxxxx

My first boy was a very difficult birth, shoulder distocia, 9lb 7oz too! And he was a DISCONTENTED baby. He would never look at me, he would not smile, he screamed every time he was fed (severe colic), and was in general a pain in the arse. One night the midwives in the nursing home put him at the end of a corridor so he wouldn't wake the other nice babies up.I had been told I would never have children, so I was absolutely thrilled that I had him, but it was still rough!. He would never go up to bed, eventually I gave up and allowed him to fall asleep downstairs and then carry him up two flights of stairs.School was a nightmare, he would bang his head against the wall and refuse to go. He never liked or suited being a child. Now he is 19 and he is lovely. Just hope you don't have to wait that long though. The next two nippers turned out normal enough so don't let it put you off having more. ( I know, 'normal' !!!..not very pc but you know what I mean!) Good luck, hope the light shines in soon x

My first boy was a very difficult birth, shoulder distocia, 9lb 7oz too! And he was a DISCONTENTED baby. He would never look at me, he would not smile, he screamed every time he was fed (severe colic), and was in general a pain in the arse. One night the midwives in the nursing home put him at the end of a corridor so he wouldn't wake the other nice babies up.I had been told I would never have children, so I was absolutely thrilled that I had him, but it was still rough!. He would never go up to bed, eventually I gave up and allowed him to fall asleep downstairs and then carry him up two flights of stairs.School was a nightmare, he would bang his head against the wall and refuse to go. He never liked or suited being a child. Now he is 19 and he is lovely. Just hope you don't have to wait that long though. The next two nippers turned out normal enough so don't let it put you off having more. ( I know, 'normal' !!!..not very pc but you know what I mean!) Good luck, hope the light shines in soon x

Glad you're feeling better about it. Honestly, motherhood didn't come naturally to me first time around. Second time round 'twas a doddle

I did wonder how supportive your DP was. I'm not surprised to to read what you've put to be honest. Are you able to have a full and frank conversation with him? I think if you were more supported to make the changes then it wouldn't feel like such a negative experience. And you wouldn't feel so negative about parenting. You deserve more than that and it isn't acceptable for him to get annoyed if you are seeking help elsewhere, from the sleep dude, if he isn't helping you find answers to some of the challenges you're facing everyday. Sorry to be blunt.

This is going to sound a bit hippy dippy, but have you tried taking him out for a walk in the evening as the sun is going down (weather permitting of course!)? It sounds mad, but it goes on the theory that our circadian rhythms are governed by the natural production of seratonin and melatonin (triggered by the presence or absence of sunlight). Many early wakers have an imbalance in these two natural hormones, so exposing them to evening daylight helps to re-set them over a period of time.

There was an 'early wakers' thread on here a while back and lots of people were giving it a try (including me!) with varying degrees of success. I think you have to make it a regular habit, but after some time lots of people did see an improvement. Might be worth throwing into the mix, along with a later nap!

Hope things get better for you. I would recommend a book called how to calm a challenging child. It's very good at helping to stop everything being a battle. But generally I think it is good to read ANY parenting books, as they all help you to know that you are normal, that lots of parents of spirited children feel the same. But the main thing I find when reading parenting books is they stop me thinking "I am a rubbish mum" and instead make me think "I am using a rubbish technique, maybe I'll try x or y" etc. which is helpful, particularly if you are suffering from PND/traumatic birth/I'm a failure etc.

If he wakes up really early could you do a short morning nap eg 9am for half hour? Might see him through till the afternoon then have a proper nap and a later bedtime. Just an idea xx

Lots of sympathy, You sound absolutely exhausted tbh I tend to shout when i am desperate for a break. The early waking is a bugger I found completely blacking out Dcs rooms they tended to sleep for longer. Use tinfoil or cardboard on the windows before closing curtains Initially to see if it makes Any difference. I agree if he can sleep longer at night he will drop the nap which would help.

Hello all, i am quite a new MN and I think you are all lovely and supportive and have given really good advice on this thread.
I had 4 children under 5 (they are all grown up now) and I struggled exactly like SharkSkinThing describes with my first DD. All these years later I still feel guilty about how I treated her, how strict I tried to be and how I smacked her and swore and shouted at her. Trust me it doesn't work and you willt end up escalating your bad behaviour as the child becomes desensitized. I now know all she wanted was attention and to be shown love. It seemed never ending, but if I could turn the clock back now I would.
First DD got worse as her siblings came along but I learnt new and different parenting skills as I figured out different coping strategies and the 3 younger ones were much happier, easier toddlers than the first one was -although my first DD continued to challenge me and still does for that matter and that relationship is still damaged and I blame myself for that ( she is now 23).
I eventually discovered this book called "Toddler Taming" which I found very good and it explains alot of what lies behind toddler behaviour and makes it easy to find ways to manage it.
Don't despair, but don't use the F word because when it comes right back at you, you'll have no-where to go.
Good luck SharkSkinThing

I have no real advice as my DD is younger, but wanted to offer an alternative perspective on the early waking. My DD just does not need 12 hours sleep, that's all there is to it. She needs 10-10.5 with a 1.5 hour nap. I tried all sorts of nap moving, cutting back etc, earlier bedtimes etc but the Only thing that solved the problem (ie she now fairly reliably sleeps til 6am and only wakes before 5.30 once in a blue moon) was to move bedtime later. I think if they have lower sleep needs you have to choose where to take the hit. It sounds stupid but it was really really hard moving bedtime half an hour because she was so tired at bedtime - in the end it was the olympics that made us do it because Chris Hoy was always up for a gold medal at 6.45 or so, delaying bathtime! Just a suggestion that perhaps you could look at moving bedtime to 7.45 and get him sleeping til after 5 at least? I'm sure you'd feel more human. Also we have a gro clock and she has just about got it that I want to sleep til the sun comes out even if she doesn't and she's normally pretty quiet in her cot now in the mornings.

Hello Everyone

I can?t get over how many more lovely replies I have had about this issue; I can?t tell you enough how much they have helped me.

I?m in such a better place with DS this week ? yes, still difficult, yes, still waking early (but I?m going to try the later nap this week), but I?ve taken on board all of your collective advice in terms of taking a breath, and essentially turning the situation around. So, lots of tickling and making light of those grumpy moments, and zero tolerance on the stuff that is unacceptable (such as the hitting). As a result I have just felt psychologically much better; I feel like I am turning it around slowly, that I?m back in control! I?m not worrying about it all so much, and enjoying the moments more ? maybe the sunshine helps too!

In contrast DP is having a nightmare time with DS; he just doesn?t seem able to negotiate with him, and DS is basically walking all over him. But experience has taught me to not interfere, DP will have to either copy what I?m doing (and he does this, eventually, when he realises what I?m doing works), or carry on and get nowhere. I know that sounds mean of me, I?m not being a game-playing witch, but DP will not be told about anything in terms of what a friend/the HV/parenting books advise, so I?ve stopped discussing this stuff with him, he?ll just do the opposite anyway! Once he sees that a new approach is getting success, he?ll soon catch up!

I?m going to try the later nap from this week and see if it helps. TBH I feel ok about the EW now, I do feel that it might just be DS?s body-clock. We?ve tried the later bed time, cutting the nap, and he has double black-out blinds in his room, I have to say only time and his getting older have helped in terms of his sleep ? i.e., as they older you get more confident about any screaming and crying they are doing is just being about a power-struggle over bed time, and leaving them to rant for 10 mins isn?t child abuse but boundary setting, IYSWIM. But everything?s worth a go, and I?ve planned the week so that the nap will have to happen later. I?ll let you know if it begins to have an effect in a few weeks.

Anyway. Thank you all so much again. I?d have been drowning if it weren?t for all of these amazing replies; they really have helped me get the perspective I desperately needed. xxxx

and for you. Early mornings - relentless early mornings combined with toddler behaviour are a killer and you have my sympathies. I sometimes think that part of the difficulty with toddlers is that they are properly little people with personalities but just have no idea - and couldn't really if they tried - of how you feel about it all.

Loads of posters have said really helpful things so won't ramble on. But the car thing, I have found that cars can be like a pressure cooker for me and DS (although less so now, thankfully). I did - and still do sometimes - just hold it in until I can pull over, then I explain (through clenched teeth in all honesty) that I am getting cross and tired and I am going to have a little walk around the car, by myself, to calm down. It isn't a magic bullet, but it does seem to pull us both through the worst of those sort of moments.