Sibling rivalry - how so I deal with this please. End of my tether!

[choceyes]

My DS is 4.3yrs old. At nursery he is a wonderful boy, very popular, no trouble at all.
Even at home when he is good he is very good and is great company.
But lately he has come whingy and dare I say at...annoying to be with.

The main problem is his behaviour towards his sister who is 2.5yrs. He is constantly bullying her, annoying her and won't leave her along.
For example:
She will be pushing her toy buddy or scooting along and he will repeadly stand in her way till she cries.
Always contradicting her (she'd say she saw a dog, and he'd say no you didn't!) until she cries.
Knowing that she likes a particular toy and she's going towards it, he will run a head of her and take it and run away with it...and ofcourse making her cry.
Keep telling her things that makes her upset, knowing fully well that he is making her upset and he doesn't care one bit.
No empathy at all towards her. Once he tipped over a jar of chilli powder over her head (I know it's my fault I should have put it out of reach) delibaretely and she spend then next half hour screaming ofcourse, and while she was crying all he did was calmly play with his toys . Not even bothered that his little sister was in agony. All the time me and Dh trying to wash DD and clean her eyes.
ALmost everytime I leave the room, I hear DD crying, because DS has done something to annoy her.
He takes great pleasure when I am disciplining DD if she is naughty, telling me to do this to her or that to her.

Despite all this I think he does like her, it's just his behaviour, he just acts silly all the time. He does ask her to play with him and he does enjoy it when they are playing well together, about 5% of the time.
DD is also very strong willed and won't let things go and often when DS is acting silly she will lose it and thump him or pull his hair. I tell her off for hitting and tell him off for winding her up.

I'm fed up of the constant refeering and I feel like I'm always shouting at my DS, which makes me so sad as we used to have such a lovely relationship. I'm ashamed to say I have resorted to smacking my DS a couple of times too, after a full day of bad behaviour from him and I lost it at the end of the day. He cries and it makes me feel so awful.
Most days, by the end of the day I feel like a rubbish mother.

I could do with some advice on how to discipline DS. I'm out and about alot when I'm with them, taking them places as I find staying in with them, makes things a whole lot worse. But because we are not at home a lot, I can't do things like time out or naughty step kind of thing.

Do I just ignore his bad behaviour and just console DD when he makes her upset?

Any advice would be much appreciated.

I'm no help but I hope someone with some good advice comes along soon!

so sorry you are going through this it is exhausting.

I am going to come at this from another tack, and may be totally off so ignore me if it doesn't fit..

Is he jealous? Has he worked out that he goes to nurdery but she doesn't so she gets more mummy time?

I think I would begin with some specific ds time. So when he comes home from nursery tell him that after lunch you and he are going to have some special time together. Do anythign that dd can't do. Do a puzzle up on the table, do some cooking, cuddle and read stories, anything that is just you and him.

At bedtime, put her to bed first and then have HIS own story time, he chooses book and it is his time (could be with dad or you) Let him know that you miss him when he is away.

Watch out for slipping into the 'he is naughty, she is victim' scenario as that will inflame the situation.

At the same time, you need to make it clear what the boundaries are. I ouwld find a simple repeatable rule, like In our family we are kind. That is not kind because it hurts/isn't fair/takes her toy etc. Whe you are not kind, mummy has to give you time out to think about being kind.

I wouldn't call it naughty step (hat ethat phrase) but thinking time or time out. You can then do that anywhere but you do have to doit, not worry if he shouts/cries in public, and be prepared to give up and come home if he won't do it.

For example. In our Asda there are benchees by the windows at the front. When he needs a time out, take him to the bench, sit him on it and take 2 steps away and turn slightly away so you are ot looking at him. Let him sit and think for a minute. Then go back and ask him, 'were you unkind? Can you say sorry now? I accept a hug as a sorry, don't force them to say it.

You can use anything anywhere as a timeout point. We were once at Longleat and say a mum sit her son on the kerb (not a road kerb ) and family walked 3 steps away and gave him time out.

At first he will probably protest, but you need to keep wlking him back to the bench until he stays for a minute or two. He will soon get th emessage that whereever you are and whatever the circumstance, you will pick up on his behaviour.

Teaching them you are consistent is the very best lesson you can teach in terms of discipline

But please do the special me time as well!!

wish my fingers would learn to keep up with my thoughts!

There's a book called Siblings Without Rivalry which is supposed to be good? Same authors as How To Talk which is excellent.

The only thing I can see that you could do differently is not to tell him off for winding her up.

If she has been aggressive let him see you tell her it is unacceptable.

Then once that is done and dusted talk to him about what happened and explore the reasons why she hurt him and see if you can get him to feel like the grown up who manages her behaviour positively. Try to get him to feel like he's on your team IYSWIM.

Thanks for the replies!

steppemum - I work 3 days a week, so they both go to the same nursery, do the same hours, so I don't spend anymore time with DD than I do with DS. When we come home from nursery (a half hour walk - takes up to an hour with all the tantrums and whinging mainly from DS - although I get that he is probably tired when I pick them up at 4.30pm), I always say that I want to read a book with him, and normally he loves being read to, but he just wants TV. So for an easy life I let him watch a bit. So on the days I work I feel like I hardly spend any time with him and I do miss him a lot. He goes to bed about an hour before DD, so I can't spend anytime without her there, and DD is very clingly too after being at nursery all day. The just fight for my attention all the time, even for sitting on my lap, they won't share lap space. Each one HAS to have my lap, no compromises.
I like your idea of making him sit on a bench somewhere. I'm definitely going to try that.
I think my problem is that I can't stand the DCs crying, so I'm too quite to console them. So when I'm discipliing DS, and he starts crying I then pick him up (I know he's 4 not a baby!!) and try and console him. So I get nowhere with the disciplining. Both my DM and DH have told me to let him cry if needs be.
Me and DH often take the kids apart at weekend and do our own things with them, so DS is getting quite a bit of individual attention.

I have heard of that book BertieBotts I will have a look at both, sounds really good.

Goldmandra - that makes a lot of sense. He likes to feel like he's in charge, so I think that approach might work.

My DH is much better at me than managing DS's behaviour. I tend to confront DS and upset him. Whereas DH tries to divert his attention elsewhere. DH is a teacher and used to this kind of behaviour. I do try his tactics sometimes but they dont' always work for me. I swear they act up more when I'm with them!

I know it is hard to listen to them cry, but don't loose the boundary in the tears. if they are distressed, go to them on the step/bench and say I know you are upset. You are upset because you have been told off. I am sorry you are upset, but you still have to do your minute on the bench etc.

The walk home after nursery is so hard, they are knackered and have had enough. Can he scooter? I found that was much easier than walking.

If dd goes to bed later, can you stick her in the bath while you give him his own bedtime (if dh is early enough home to watch her)

Just for interest, if he is older why does he go to bed earlier?

it is a long time between weekends, I think he needs a bit on a dialy basis. Maybe at the other end of the day. How tight are your mornings? It might be very short, but being labelled ds's special time with mummy is important

I would give him half an hour extra at bedtime. DD is younger so she should be in earlier by rights. Use that extra half hour to have a read/play a game together. Make the point that it's his half an hour, with the age difference you can keep that gap for some time to come too.

If they're a pain when they're out get two carpet spots (or use cut out fabric). They should fit in your no doubt Mum sized handbag. Use them for time outs. Pavement, supermarket, restaurant, friends houses..out comes spot if they play up. Plus, if you let them see you put spot in your bag that works as an effective deterrent too!

The only other thing I'd say is remember to have a sneaky listen before interfering as they get older. I tend to go into what hubby calls 'stalk mode' when I hear the tones change-you'd be amazed what you can glean by being sneaky for a moment or three

So when I'm discipliing DS, and he starts crying I then pick him up (I know he's 4 not a baby!!) and try and console him.

Consoling him is fine. He is upset and needs to know that you still love him. However you need to make sure he isn't using it as a method of distracting you, making you change your mind about things or avoiding sanctions. If crying works in those ways he will use it to manipulate you and won't see you as having authority.

Give him a hug and help him calm down but then calmly reinforce the message you need him to hear.

Also I forgot to mention positive reinforcement. Whenever you see him do anything at all nice or positive, especially to or for his sister mention it and praise him.

"Thank you for not stepping on DD's coat where she left it on the floor, DS."

"Well done for letting DD have that toy, DS. Would you like a go of this for a minute instead?"

Look at you sitting nicely at the table, DS! You're making me proud."

It will help him to feel he gets your positive attention and need to seek negative attention less.

You need to be careful with your not wanting to upset him thing. Sometimes you have to upset them and that's okay. It's good that you don't want to upset him, e.g. in revenge kind of thing (because that doesn't help) but if you've put him in time out and then he knows he can get out by crying, that's undermining the consequence that you're trying to impose!

If you're feeling guilty for punishing him in a particular way you need to find something which doesn't make you feel guilty. Maybe talk with DH when you're feeling calm and work out a strategy. A consequence doesn't have to be some big awful thing that makes them cry on purpose, but you need to be comfortable with what you've chosen so that you can stick with it even if he does get upset. It's different when they're a toddler/baby to when they're an older child - if the child can understand why they've been left (or whatever) then it's not cruel to let them cry IMO.

I had this a bit with DS - I'd put him in his room because I couldn't physically stop him from hurting me any other way but then I'd talk to him through the door to try and reassure him that I was still there and it just went on for ages and wound him up and then he'd get upset, I'd feel bad, I'd go in to speak to him and it wouldn't really get resolved. DP said no, just give him a warning and then put him in his room and don't speak to him until the four minutes (or whatever) is up. And then if you go in and he reacts aggressively again then tell him "I think you need more time to calm down" and walk out again. I found it really hard the first couple of times (and four minutes felt really long!), but actually it works much better - I can tell that his crying is angry rather than upset and because he's not getting any reaction he usually rages for a bit and then calms down and we're able to talk about what happened, (and this is when I do any consoling if he is upset - which actually, he usually isn't because he understands why he was put in his room, and he isn't afraid of being put in his room - he can cope with it - I don't think you should ever punish them in a way they can't cope with) plus since I've started doing this, although his initial reaction was to react more aggressively, after a couple of weeks he has totally calmed down and in 99% of situations we can actually resolve things without any shouting, conflict or punishments. It's back to the way I wanted it to be and I feel much more in control (without being the horrible shouty strict mother I feared "toughening up" would turn me into!)

He goes to bed at about 7.15pm. He is very tired by then and if you keep him up any longer (and I have selfishly tried keeping him up so I can spend more time with him) he is sleep deprived the next day. If he doesn't get a decent nights sleep then his is a nightmare and his behaviour is very difficult to handle.
DD goes to bed about an hour later as she still has a day time nap. This is normal no? DS went to bed later when he was still napping but when he stopped day time naps he went to bed much earlier.

I do spend alone time with him on the 2 days that I have off with them during the week too. I make a point of reading books to him or doing a puzzle with him for about an hour while DD naps. Sometimes even when DD is around I still read to him (he loves being read to) while she is busy playing. On balance I think I spend more time with DS than with DD! Although DD makes up for it by co-sleeping and still BFing so I don't feel too bad that she's not getting loads of attention during the day and I carry her around a lot too, so she's fine. She's an independant little girl!

On the way back from nursery, DS is on a buggy board! So it's not like I even expect him to walk! I tried the scooter for awhile and although DS is great on it, we have to walk through a very busy city centre at rush hour and sometimes DD insists on walking, so I can't handle a dwaddling toddler and a racing 4yr old on a scooter whilst pushing a pram too!

In the mornings on work days it is very hectic. DS wakes up at around 7 and I need to get both of them ready and give breakfast and out of the house by 8, DH leaves at 7.15. Absolutely no time for quality time unfortunately.

I llike the idea of the time out spot. I think I'm going to have to invest some time and energy into carrying out that kind of punishment. I'm bad at that. I'm inconsistent, sometimes I punish, sometimes I don't, sometimes I ignore, sometimes I scream at him. Poor thing.

I do give positive reinforcement, like when he shares something with DD. And make DD say thank you to him too. Although I could definitely do more of it. Recently I have focused on his naughtiness and not on his good behaviour.

BertieBotts - what kind of consequences do you mean? Like taking toys away?
Glad your method worked for you. Will definitely try that as well. How old was your DS when you did this?

I think the positive reinforcement thing is key. Be really vigilant and keep an eye out for any positive interactions between the two and praise, praise, praise.

When you are at home with them and you are preparing for DD's naps - ask your DS what he would like to do when she goes to sleep. Then make a point of looking forward to it with him. Let him know that you enjoy spending time with just him too.

"I think I'm going to have to invest some time and energy into carrying out that kind of punishment. I'm bad at that. I'm inconsistent, sometimes I punish, sometimes I don't, sometimes I ignore, sometimes I scream at him."

This is the key.

All you need to do is become more consistent so he knows where the boundaries are and how firm they are. You would be amazed at the difference this can make.

I have read Siblings Without Rivalry and it is a great book with tools I think I'll use as my kids get older (they are currently 5, 2.5 & 1).

To summarise we often use their technique to minimise fighting by encouraging talking - so if they hit we say 'no hitting, use your words to explain why you don't like that' or 'no screaming, use your words nicely to tell us what you want'.

This usually works pretty well, just reinforcing the message that hitting gets you nowhere and talking works.

To back up this message we get them to talk together to come up with solutions e.g. If they are fighting about what to watch on telly then we get them to discuss with each other until they come up with a solution - it usually works.

My DD1 (5) has just started to play nicely (from time to time) with her 2yr old sister so things are looking up for me, however,

However, when DD1 is tired after school she exhibits a lot of the same behaviours as your DS. The most annoying thing is when she won't leave DD2 alone. She's in her face, she's sitting on her head, she's got her in a headlock, she's pulling her by her clothes, she's wrestling her and when DD2 is trying to play with something DD1 insists that she does what she wants her to do instead. iF DD" turns round and retaliates she's liable to get a slao from DD1. Sometimes I have to pull DD1 off DD" kicking and crying.

I find the 3.30-6.30 slot really difficult during the week as I'm often just trying to stop them killing each other and sometimes I get hit too in the crossfire. Sometimes I have to put the TV on just to get them to have a break in proceedings. If they were older I'd probably seperate them by sending to their rooms to calm down.

I'm not sure what answer is but sometimes I sit between them whilst each does a jigsaw or some colouring or playdoh. Can you find something you can all do together to stop them annoying each other. Lego? Playmobil.

The more things they can do together will encourage them to play together. I sometimes just drag them both across the floor on a blanket (boat) and they enjoy swapping places and taking turns to be at the front. Half an hour of being silly together can make all the difference.

Plus 1:1 at bedtime with DS reading stories and chatting ( if you can get DP or a friend to entertain your DD at the same time)

Another fan of Siblings Without Rivalry here. I can't rate this book highly enough.