Is this normal 4yr old capabilities/behavious? Is my DS a bit behind?

[choceyes]

DS is 4.3yrs so not at school yet. He goes to nursery 3 days a week (he is in the preschool section).
Basically I'm worried that he's not really progressed much in the last 6 months or so. Maybe I'm worried unduly and this is all normal for a 4yr old, so looking for reassurances too that I shouldn't really be worrying and he's only 4yrs old!

What he can/can't do:
He can draw basic shapes and "bubble men" kind of thing. And something that looks like a car too.
Write a few numbers, but not very well at all, but he gets the basic shape of it...almost.
Counts to about 20, but gets a bit confused around the 12/13 numbers.
He can copy his own name, but not very well and not by memory.
He hates colouring in.
He likes playing with play doh.
He hates arts and crafts.
He has absolutely no interest in learning to read, or sound out words or interested in knowing what letters sound like, although he is good at rhyming (he rhymes words to annoy me and his little sister normally)
He is good at those things like pointing at the odd one out in pictures and joining dots etc
He has started swimming lessons, but he mostly hugs the sides. He just doesn't seem to have any passion for learning anything.
He doesn't want to learn to cycle (without stabilisers).
He is good at imaginative play and making up stories like most 4yrs olds do.
He loves being read to and has an amazing memory. He is good at noticing inconsistencies in stories.
He is good at puzzles and jigsaws but 6 months ago he was doing loads of them and for ages now he doesn't want to do it, so he hardly does them anymore.
We sometimes do those Orchard games with him, and he always wants to win and will trantrum if somebody else does better than him. So we either give in and let him win or I get frustrated and stop playing with him. Anyway it always ends up in frustration.
He whines a lot since he turned 4 and nothing I do seems good enough for him. Although my DH has a lovely time with him (he is a teacher and has good skills to nip a tantrum in the bud or ignore the whinging).

Is this normal 4yr old behaviour or should I be worried or am I setting him too high a standard?

I think he sounds like he's OK. I think something neurological has to kick in for reading to start and I wouldn't expect it at four.

Thanks! Both me and DH were reading books by 4/5 (DH self taught) so compared to what we were doing at the same age DS seems to be a late developer.

I think he sounds fine! My DS1 is 4.6 so at school and doesn't do that much more - he had no interest in letters or writing his name at all until he started. He's just getting the hang of phonics and sounding out basic words, draws stick men ocassionally, can write his name, has no interest in arts and crafts and loves pretending to be Spider-Man!

Sounds fine to me. Ds1 couldn't draw anything when he started school, wasn't interested in books at all and would write his name but nothing else. I started reading at 2 so found it very hard to judge what was normal.

He's 6 now and doing really week at school. Dd due to start in September and I'm much more laid back- mainly because I know a bit more about what other children her age do. And partly because I know the teacher has the skills to get them interested and then I know how to help.

I also get frustrated when playing games with them. so I leave dh to do games as he is much more patient than me

Hello choceyes, I wouldn't worry at all, if I were you. He seems quite the logician and it seems that he gets bored with something he can do easily very quickly. I think your challenge is tapping into something he can really get into. Some form of construction game play, for example. I'm really not into spending big money so prefer to make things with my kids. How about explaining that you want to make a swing (old rope and a board) and see what he has to contribute. Get him involved with the process from start to finish and see how that activity works out.

You may think, 'wtf' but kids are great at trying to problem solve and they really get into it. I work with kids and the young ones are so enthusiastic when we work on practical tasks.

As for the reading don't worry. Research is showing that some of us start really early and others don't but by the age of about 6/7yrs children tend to catch up with their 'early-start' companions.

I work with children teaching English as a foreign language and I am really keen to see British children learning foreign languages too. I wonder if this could be a new challenge for you little lad; they are never too young. Just as an idea (if you want, that is) try the links below and see if they engage him.

Good luck.

Thanks for the reassuarances everybody! It's good to know that DS is normal and will get there in time.

notamomtokids - funny you should say that because my mother tongue is not English, but I've lived in England for over 20 years now that English comes to be more naturally than my own other tongue. I do speak to the DCs in my mother tongue sometimes and they know a few words, but I so wished I had spoken it to them exclusively from the start. My DH is english so i find it difficult to not talk in english at home. I'm going to make more of an effort from now on and teach them more words and phrases in my own language. DS was a very early talker and he has a great vocabulary so I'm sure he has the skills to learn another languauge.
He does learn French at preschool, 30mins a week and he can already count to 10 in French, name a lot of animals, and can even say a few phrases. I know some French too, so I understand what he says and can correct him and expand on it. But it has been amazing what he can learn in just 30min a week!

Yes completely normal! I could read by the time I was 4/5 as my mum was a teacher and taught me at home, but although ds can recognise most of the letters of the alphabet (he is 4 years 1 month) he can't recognise or spell words yet. I haven't tried to properly teach him, other than playing with alphabet letters and games like "what does 'ball' begin with?" which he is good at. I don't think there is any rush with learning to read. In Wales, where we live, education until the age of about 6 is much more learning through play, so rather than sitting down trying to write their name or read a book they might play at shop and count coins, and practice counting that way. The age they start reading at has no relevance in the long run - by the time they are 7 or 8 they will all have caught up with each other and have variation according to ability, not age at learning. I would suggest not pushing him and just letting him go at his own pace, but encourage him by asking him things like "what letter is that?" when you read together or are out and about and see signs. Nothing that he will see as pressure to read, just having fun.

God I really, really wouldn't worry. My DS refused to even pick up a pencil before starting school and I didn't make him. He certainly couldn't have written numbers or copied his name.

Once he did go to school he just sort of got it and was writing sentences by half term. He's been in the top group all the way through.

If you were saying he was 6 you might have some concerns.

Try doing the thing he enjoys instead. If you go for a walk read the numbers on the houses, play snakes and ladders and other board games if he likes them and keep reading to him

Sounds fine.

That is, he is doing things my Reception 4yo (4.7) is not really doing yet, although he isn't doing things DS did six months ago IYSWIM.

I'm sure nursery would let you know if they thought his development was lacking.

He sounds absolutely normal to me!

Sounds exactly like my son who's the same age. He has no interest in drawing/writing/crafts but has been doing 100 piece jigsaws since he was very young and loves problem solving/spot the difference etc. He stopped the jigsaws for a while but has recently gotten back into them. He also doesn't want me to take stabilizers off his bike, in fact you've pretty much described my son. I'm not worried, everyone's different and into different things.
Ds loves books too so i do a bit of letter/number recognition with him atm but don't push it iyswim. They all get there in the end, there's no rush.

My son sounds like yours! He's just 4. Those orchard games drive me crackers. We have a cupcake one and he ignores the rules and just wants the chocolate cupcakes. And then tantrums when he loses.

Oh and swimming lessons were given up as he hated them and wasn't interested in learning. He only liked jumping in.

He can ride a bike though (his one talent!)

choceyes, it really is amazing what can be learnt in such a short time. You shouldn't be worried about not having spoken to DS in your mother tongue; start this evening. Not that there is a hierarchy, but if your MT is a European language it can only be an advantage that your child learn it.

It may be a bit difficult to start with as he has his own language established but the learning could start off being secondary; play some audio so that it is in the background and can be picked up subconsciously and maybe a 5 minute cartoon 3-4 times a week.

I have been teaching English as a foreign language to children for 6 years now and it is sometimes mind-blowing seeing what the children are capable of. I have a 2.9 yr old who has been with me since Oct 2012 and the other day did 'round and round the garden' on my hand. Obviously, she cannot say it like me, but she had all the sounds in the right place and her actions corresponded with the rhyme. I see this little girl every day for 30mins or an hour. I am working on a project to make the children where I live bilingual and I see signs of it already 4 months on.

I'm also working on a project to do this with British children learning Spanish.

If you do start this, please keep me updated with DS' progress. It would be really interesting to see how he develops.

My ds is 3.6 and will be one of the youngest when (if) he starts school in September. I am considering delaying him.

He will only draw with encouragement. No real interest at all. Although he did do a pirate treasure map voluntarily last week, but that was the first time!
Hates colouring.
Rubbish at jigsaws. Won't even try.
Rubbish at getting dressed.
Bit lazy.
Extremely competitive
Not great at socialising
Can't ride bike minus stabilisers

Can write his name (3 letters so not exactly hard)
Knows all letter sounds and some names
Has sight vocabulary of about ten words
Counts to 20
Can write a few letters and numbers
Sometimes manages to blend letters to read a CVC word but very hit and miss
Can add and subtract with numbers to 6 and can do one more / one less up to ten.
Can swim well with armbands

He is extremely defeatist and unless it comes easy he's not interested. He won't keep trying. He just sulks and gives up. I'm hoping it's a maturity thing.

Apart from the swimming and cycling, he sounds exactly like my 4.4 yo DS (also not at school, birthday is first week of September).

HE has swimming lessons, but is overonfident and messes about, and leart to ride a bike last year but got chicken pox and lost all his confidence and "forgot". He is happy on a Tag-a-long on an adult bike, but not so keen on riding by himself.

Absolutely fine and normal. Nothing there I would even be concerned about if you told me he was half way through Reception tbh.

sounds completely normal to me - my DD1 is just 4 and with variations for personality about the same. Drawing is coming, colouring she likes (but does less of now that she can draw); knows her numbers, can count, knows a few letters, can't really write any of them (about which she got very cross today). Won't ride her bike (but brilliant on scooter) etc etc