4 year old pushing and hitting at nursery

[Suze219]

Long story short- My 4 year old son has always had behaviour problems to a degree, partly caused by hearing problems (since resolved). He also has quite a negative attitude generally. We have taken him to a paediatrician and CAMHS and there is no clinical need re: his behaviour (he does not have ASD, for example).

At nursery he is hitting and pushing the children, especially the smaller ones. We don't hit him at home and we do talk to him about his behaviour and give consequences (he rarely hits either of us at home- I have zero tolerance and he goes straight to his room).

I know that this is 'normal' but he seems to do it more than other children. A couple of parents have complained. :( He is very tall for his age and so partly it's because he doesn't know his own strength.

I don't really know what to do any more. Nursery does time out with him (which we do). We tried reward charts but they didn't help. Nursery also does small-group work with him which works very well but in September he will be going to school and so he needs to learn to get on with other children without being so aggressive.

He knows it's wrong- he apologises straight away but it's a very mechanical response so he just goes through the motions without really meaning it.

One of the most frustrating things is that the professional advice we have been given has been very contradictory: use reward charts/don't use reward charts; ignore the behaviour/don't ignore the behaviour and so on. Also I think I have been classed as an over-anxious Mum and so I don't think anyone takes my concerns seriously.

Any suggestions welcome! Thanks. I find it very upsetting, really, and I don't want him to drive his little friends away!

Didn't want your post to go unanswered - I feel your pain as I also have a 'hitter' although he is more part of a group that are all physical. Here's my approach...

We recently started 123Magic, although it is very similar to what we had been doing anyway, but DS seems to respond to it. Tell the nursery what you are doing at home so that you can all be consistent.

Out of nursery, I found that you have to be a bit of a hoverer for a while - you get good at spotting when things might happen and distract/intervene.

Try and get playdates (not easy if your DS is labelled!) and cultivate a new, less aggressive playing style.

Reward charts don't work for 'naughty' behaviour, I find - only for rewarding good behaviour (good sharing, being kind, helping a friend, etc rather than 'not hitting')

There is plenty of behaviour I ignore (whining for example) but never hitting or pushing. I'm careful of what the punishment is as I always have to follow through.

Thanks very much for the reply. I will look up 123Magic, for sure.

The problem seems to be the nursery setting: he has playdates with the neighbouring children and doesn't hit at all, ever. (I'm not blaming the nursery; what I mean is that it seems to be something about big groups....which he has never liked, really).

Thanks, yes, I do ignore the whining etc. as the attention just makes it worse.

I think playdates with nursery children might be the answer- he needs to practise non-aggressive play styles. He also seems to get angry easily and expresses that physically; he has slightly delayed speech so maybe that is part of the problem? (He does get speech therapy but the provision is very patchy and inconsistent.)

Thanks again- I have a lot to think through!

Ask your nursery if they'll keep an 'ABC' log (antecedent, behaviour, consequence) log and/or observations on him. From what you've said it sounds like frustration, if you chat to your DS's keyworker you could work on a behaviour plan?

Does the nursery have a star chart or similar?

What triggers it? sharing? difficulty with socialising?

If reward charts haven't worked, don't use them but I have found that if the reward chart is good, with proper rewards and used with consistency, they do work to 'break the cycle' but something else is necessary on the long term. A simple reward chart with little stars or smiles never worked with my kids. I 'customise' their reward charts, either with their favorite tv character, or something that is meaningful to them, and it's a problem with hitting, he needs to spend half a day without hitting to get a 'point'. If he has a day without hitting, he gets to I don't know, have extra tv time, or extra story, or a biscuit, or a bike ride, whatever works FOR HIM.

To me ignoring hitting is not an option. But I am not sure if time out is appropriate. Personally I don't think that time out teaches children about real consequences. He needs ot understand what is the consequence of hitting, ie he IS hurting other children, he is making them sad, other children will not want to play with him.

If he was older, say 5, I would probably try this idea: have a jar, and lots of tokens. Have five treats - a magazine, a little game, a sweet, a small soft toy, a bakugan. He'd start with ten tokens in his jar. If he hits, a token gets taken out. If he doesn't hit for a half-day, he gets a token. When he reaches 20 tokens, he gets to choose one of the treats. But 4 is a bit young for that.

Hi and thanks again. Yes, they had ABC charts for a while and then stopped using them as his behaviour was so much better. he does have a behaviour plan but nothing seems to work. :(

I think he kind-of understands the consequences; that it hurts, people won't be friends etc. But he seems to think that if he says sorry or says 'I didn't mean to do it' then that's OK. So I think he might understand the consequences but maybe doesn't much care? I don't know. Although he doesn't like upsetting me and gets very hurt if he thinks I am upset.

I have tried the jar thing before but yes, he was too young then (2). I wonder if it might work now, especially if he has a treat that is special to him. Hmmmm. I might try it. But he has never been motivated by external rewards (that's mainly why the reward charts never worked).

Thanks for all of the suggestions. I will try and pull all of this together in my head and see what we and the nursery can do together. :)

My ds is 4yo and started nursery in September. I have learned that a lot of hitting goes on! Ds has come home with a lump and bruise under his eye, a split lip, and my friend found her son to have a bite mark on his shoulder. Ds often tells me that so-and-so "hitted me today". Ds has always been very gentle in his play with others, but since starting nursery he has been more likely to push and he bit another child at a party (mortified!). I think this is just a difficult age where they (boys particularly) have a testosterone surge and are also looking to establish a bit of a pecking order. They do grow out of it.

If I were you I would try to ride it out but continue a zero tolerance policy for hitting. No treats if he hits. I disagree with the advice you were given about ignoring it - even if your discipline doesn't pay off straight away, he needs to know this is a boundary line that it is not acceptable to cross.

Don't worry, your ds is certainly not the only one behaving like this. Some young children take longer than others to get used to playing with peers nicely. Ds's best friend is a nice little boy who has a tendency to hit when he gets overexcited (or for no obvious reason). I am rather careful if they have any playdates together and do watch like a hawk but I appreciate that he'll grow out of it and I won't hold it against him when he's 6!

One suggestion for rewards is to buy a big jar of marbles, take them all out and he gets the empty jar. When he has been good and not hit or been aggressive for a day he gets a marble to put in his jar. If he hits, he has one taken out. If he gets up to say 20 marbles, you could get him a marble run from Amazon - inexpensive and lots of fun to play with. Just an idea as ds is a terrible eater and I am thinking of trying something like that to encourage him to try new foods.

Thanks mummy2benji. That sounds like a very similar situation to mine! I know what you mean about being mortified. I hate seeing parents at the gate. I can't meet their eyes.

I do like the jar/marbles idea. (He loves marbles, coincidentally, so this might work).

Thank you and thanks to everyone else. Great suggestions and it's nice to not feel so alone. x

So sorry to dredge up a zombie thread, but I'm a bit desperate... @Suze219 your son sounds EXACTLY like mine does now! I know this was 10 years ago... any chance you can tell me how things went? Did things get worse or better, and was there anything that especially helped? Thanks so much.

Hi @Worriedmotheroftwo I can't see that you've had a reply....☹️

However, just wondering how you are getting on after a few months from your post here?

We are also in a similar situation, so like yourself previously...hoping for updates and ideas 🤞

Hello! Actually, we seen to have turned a corner. My son started school in September and it was a bit rocky at first - there were a couple of incidents - but we seem to have turned a corner, and haven't had any issues for more than a month now. We are told he's doing really well and coping much better. Early days of course and anything could happen but this gives me hope! At nursery he was hitting kids pretty much every day so this is a massive relief for us.

We've not done anything in particular. I think the teacher has tried to be flexible with him in school. We've been really strict about him getting plenty of sleep and ensuring he isn't hungry or tired as that seems to make him so much worse. Fingers crossed he keeps this up... and i hope things get better for you too. So stressful isn't it!