How to manage behaviour if sanctions don't work.

[ClaireFromWork]

DD (8 years old) is being really wilful at the moment. If I ask her to do stuff she refuses. If she asks to do something and I say no she does it anyway.

I've been using a pasta jar for reward and also punishment (I can take away a maximum of 5 pasta bits for being naughty / rudeness / wilfulness) but if I do she doesn't care.

Today she asked to do painting. I said no because I didn't want a mess as was busy. Next thing I know she's managed to get the brushes (god knows how as they're in a tall cupboard up high) and her sister and her are painting in the playroom and have dropped a brush loaded with black paint on the carpet. So I sent them both to their rooms and told them to tidy them whilst I sorted out the mess in the playroom. Younger DD did as she was told and also helped in the playroom. DD refused, blamed me and is still in her room refusing to do as she's told.

I've threatened no screen time, pasta jar penalty etc but she just says "I don't care".

Am at my wits end. Can anyone help?

Haven't got any advice but just marking my place. DS is 8, does that tell you enough?

Stop threatening and do it. No screen until she does whatever it is.

If the pasta in the jar isn't working, stop using it. She obviously needs immediate sanctions, not long term ones. So give them to her.

And follow through.

Rather than getting her to tidy her own room, could she have cleaned up the mess she made - or at least helped you to clean it up? Cleaning up the mess is a more logical consequence than losing a token.

If the jar is losing its effect, there are other ways to point her in the right direction. If she can?t paint then help her to choose another game and settle with it before going back to what you are doing. And check in regularly, with plenty of positive comments and extra praise if she and her sister are playing nicely.

And do take advantage of her independent spirit ? if you had told her that yes she could paint but to put a plastic cover on the floor first then what?s the problem? She?s clearly ready to do more things for herself, she can get things out and probably she can tidy up and put them away herself too. It doesn?t sound as if they were being deliberately naughty to upset you. Possibly your DD thought that the only reason she couldn?t paint was that you were too busy to get the paints out, so she was being helpful and grown-up by getting the things out for herself and helping her sister to paint too, keeping out from under your feet. She just didn't think of what could go wrong. Instead of you doing things for her like getting the paints out, which is frustrating her, try giving her praise and encouragement to do more things for herself, and then use your time to do more things with her.

Best of luck - I'm sure when she grows up you'll treaure her sparkiness

I reckon she does care, she's bluffing.

When you ask her to do something and she refuses - make her do it. Don't accept the refusal and say that refusing is not an option. Just don't ask her to do things that seem too hard (eg cleaning a really messy room - that is really daunting and something she is bound to fail at).

And at some stage explain that living together means helping each other out. Tell her some of the things you do to help her (eg buy and cook her food, take her to fun places, help her tie her laces - whatever). Tell her if she doesn't do things when you ask, then you stop doing things for her. She is old enough to understand that.

And make sure she knows that no means no. (I have 2 nine year olds and an 11 year old -0 so have been through this stage fairly recently).

Part of the problem with removing pasta/marbles from the jar is that they have already been earned for good behaviour and removing them can lead to anger and resentment.

When the marble in the jar was explained to me when I worked with challenging children I was told never to remove marbles for that reason.

Maybe you could continue to use the pasta jar to reward but use something else eg, screen time as a sanction.

I agree that sanctions need to happen soon after bad behaviour.

One of the problems I have encountered with the jar is that it can take too long to fill it to get the reward and children can just give up.

I am sure your Dd does care, if it was me I would go and give her a hug and tell her you love her but she needs to do what you ask her to do or not in the case of the paint.

With DS I ask once and then refuse to engage him until he does it. Like if I tell him to pick up his cars and he doesn't, for example.

Then when he asks for a snack, or to have a story read to him, etc, I just say "Sure, as soon as you've done what I asked."

It can go on for awhile, but eventually they'll need or want something from you.

Also any toys or books he's left out by the time he goes to bed because he refuses to pick them up, I've just thrown away. Or given to the charity shop. It only took 2 days. :)

My dd was like this. Reward good behaviour, really big it up. Ignore bad wherever possible.

Sanctions did nothing for my dd, theynever worked. Lots of praise and rewards worked wonders. Big improvements on overall level of mood and behaviour, and much less horrid arguing which can destroy a relationship. Sometimes I would ask why she was behaving like shewas, and that used to get results too.

She's discovered the power of no. She has it, and you want her to have it really - you want her no to have power because there will be times in her life when she needs to use it. Many, many times, and she needs to be able to without it being painful or making her feel guilty or ashamed. That's how it was explained to me anyway, and it took me a while to understand what they meant, but I am glad I did, as I'm glad that 8 year old of mine (now a teenager) is happily saying no to a lot!

Agree that rewards speak much more than punishments, so it helps to make sure they overwhelm the bad bits. Ideally, rewards should be instantaneous and lasting, and punishments are best thought out and served in the cold light of 'what am I trying to achieve from this' and more in the form of teaching a new life skill. I'd dye some pasta red and add ONE for bad behaviour not dealt with (where there isn't an obvious way to deal with it). Then, on a good happy day for all, count up the pasta and decide what to do about the red ones.

Perhaps beforehand you could (together) make helpful tokens, such as making bed, pairing socks, tidying shoes, tidying games and toys, making a drink for someone, playing a game with someone, wiping table and counters, cleaning sink, tidying tupperware, wiping skirting boards, feeding & cleaning out pets, washing bath, making sandwiches/toast, letting someone else choose the TV programme, etc. Whatever kind and loving behaviour she is ready for, and she could pick one token to do for each red piece of pasta in her jar, and share them between other members of the family, for them to call in as favours when it suits them. (It could be argued that in all fairness, you should have a pasta jar as well and do the same, but with Mummy sized tasks! )