Naptime nightmares. Considering sleep clinic for 5mo...is she too young? Thoughts please?

[CoffeeChocolateWine]

I find myself here again to beg for the umpteenth time for advice on how to get my baby napping during the day. I think I've been posting similar threads every month!

DD is 5 months old and is hopeless at napping and always has been...even as a newborn. The first 3 months were a nightmare because she only slept in bursts of 15mins and would have about 3 maybe 4 of these a day and screamed for most of the time she was awake. Things then got easier for a while when she finally decided she would sleep in a sling. But when she got too heavy for me, I went on strike(!). That was about 3 weeks ago.

For the past 3 weeks I have pretty much cut myself off socially during the day so that I can put all my time and energy into getting her used to sleeping in the cot or pram and last week I really felt like I was getting somewhere. She was napping for around 30-45mins and was doing this about 3 times a day. She was still very overtired having got used to having 2 hour sleeps in the sling but we could get by on it.

But this week I just feel like crying (and have done several times) because I feel like we are back to those dreadful early weeks. She fights her sleep every time I put her in the cot even though I know she is tired. I battle with her for up to 45 mins and then when she finally gives in she sleeps for 15-20mins and wakes up screaming and looking so tired. She will sleep for up to 45mins in the pram but the weather is so awful at the moment and I have another child aged 4. I feel like such an awful parent forcing him to come out with me in the cold and rain just so I can get her to sleep (and in the past two days he's had a really dreadful cough...can't help but blame myself for it) but I don't know what else to do...I can't listen to her inconsolable screaming and I don't like my 4yo having to listen to it either.

She doesn't sleep badly at night and is able to settle herself very quickly and easily in the evening so I can't understand why she is completely incapable of doing it during the day. She usually sleep from about 7 until about 3.30-4ish but is near on impossible to settle back to sleep. I'm generally up with her for 2-2.5 hours and sometimes she doesn't go back to sleep at all. I have consulted numerous books on sleep but nothing seems to help. I put her in the cot and soothe her and stroke her and pat her but she just gets more and more agitated.

Please don't tell me that some babies just don't need as much sleep as others as countless people have told me. My baby is miserable and overtired...that is not a baby who is getting enough sleep. And I'm exhausted and fed up with it. And I have the additional guilt of feeling like I'm neglecting my DS because DD is so high maintenance. I've spoken to the HV but she was very unconcerned by it. I haven't been to the GP but I think I will after Christmas. I'm also seriously considering taking her to a sleep clinic, but is 5 months too young? Has anyone tried a sleep clinic and could recommend one in the London or SW London area?

You have my sympathies, DS was also a baby who flipped from awake - OT in a very short space of time. Some babies just don't deal with being tired.

Do you watch for her tired signs before you put her down for a nap? I found that if I waited til he yawned or rubbed his eyes, it was too late, he was already overtired and would then proceed to scream. If I caught him when he was staring into space and jerking his limbs about then he was more likely to nap. Also, have you noticed that she has an amount of time she can stay awake for before she needs to sleep? If you don't feel confident with sleep signs then a week or so of clock watching might help.

Also, do you have a nap routine? I used to give him a quick BF to calm him, take him upstairs and swaddle him, dummy and in cot. I then used to stroke his nose but in the end he preferred being left alone. Or how about feeding on your bed and then leaving when she's asleep?

What about in the pram? DS wouldn't sleep in the pram for a while but if we were walking he was at least calm. And eventually he started napping in that too.

Sling-wise, what do you have? How about investing in a mei-tai or wrap so you can back carry?

There are so many growth and development spurts in the first year and some babies are so affected by them that it can be hard to find the right time to do something about their sleep. It took time with DS but we did get there eventually. Hope you find a solution.

Are you bfing and if so, has she been checked for tongue tie? It's just that my DS was very much like this, I thought it was just the way he was as he was gaining weight but it turned out to be tongue tie and upper lip tie. Apparently some tongue tied babies gain weight just fine. If you are bfing try googling milk matter tongue tie.

If walking and the cot are a problem, will she go asleep in the car and have you read the No Cry Nap Solution?

Go to the consultant - they will provide suggestion that are age appropriate and it will give you some tools. Good luck!

I second a nap routine, my DD responds v well to plenty of sleep cues in the run up to napping. We do a shortened version of bedtime routine.

Also, I have a manduca carrier which is excellent, I really recommend. I still carry my DD in it now on my back and she's 18months. It was more than comfortable enough on my front at 5 months and beyond.

Have you tried cranial osteopathy? Is very calming for babies. Not cheap but worth a try. Kind of rebalances them.

Do you feed to sleep? DS used to wake because he was hungry.

I would 2nd cranial osteopathy she may have a residual headache from being in the womb/birth. So at night time she is so knackered through lack of napping she sleeps but during the day is not knackered enough. Upright in the sling was more comfortable etc.

Doesn't do any harm and they will tell you if they find any tensions that would cause such an issue. I can personally recommend one who works in Windsor if you're anywhere near or there is the London centre of osteopathy place.

Also what is your sleep routine? If you feed to sleep that will be her sleep prop and will want to feed everytime she comes into a light sleep???

I've waved the white flag completely on naps and I just let 7mo DS nap on me - I've never been able to get decent naps in a pram unless it was on a long walk and certainly never in a cot. I know, based upon his morning wake-up time, when (roughly) during the day his naps will be so I can plan around these. Is this completely out of the question given that you have another DC?

Coffee - lots of sympathy this end, I have a 7 month old who has always been a poor napper and a lot of what you say rings very true.
I had a very experienced midwife/maternity nurse (who had known my dd from birth) come to help with her sleep issues at various times over the last three months. We tried the baby whisperer routine in the main but even (gulp) controlled crying at one point in desperation. Neither worked very well but it helped me to have the support and encouragement of a professional.

The only thing that helped in the end was moving to formula at 5 months and giving her a full bottle just before her nap. It's still an uphill battle a lot of the time (and I've given up expecting her to sleep much before 2-3pm) but most days she will now do an hour or so in the afternoon in her cot and half an hour in the morning.

You need a rest too so don't feel bad about wanting an alternative to the pram.
From my experience I found having professional support invaluable as I was demoralised and had lost confidence, so I'd recommend it. Best of luck.

Have you tried a different sling? I still carry my DD and she weighs 26lbs! Get yourself a beco butterfly and you will hardly feel her weight. It will at least give you some rest!

I can really empathise with you with my 3mo. I have placed a similar post tonight and will be following yours closely too. Just to say I'm thinking of you and I hope you find some help. I have had most success, if you can call it that, with baby whisperer but it means pretty much never leaving the house which is almost as miserable as a non napping baby to an outdoorsy like me. But might be worth a read if you've not been there. Both books are necessary IMO, not just one or the other.

Loads of luck.

Neither of my babies were big nappers - my son barely ever napped but he was sleeping through from 11 wks and I reckoned I'd rather than the full night's sleep than the daytime naps so I decided to accept it whilst being very jealous of mums who talked about their children sleeping for 2 hours, twice a day (not bitter at all, much!)

Thinking about the naps, it sounds like leaving her in a cot isn't working and I guess if you think about it, she is being left in a cot, on her own, probably somewhere quite quiet. If you are wanting to have her lay down for her nap could this happen in the main part of your house, in the lounge for example so she doesn't feel on her own?

I think it may be worth thinking about the sling again. A good carrier will not feel heavy so I'm thinking you didn't have the right one for you and your baby.
Are there any sling consultants near to you or any 'sling meets'. This would be a great way to get some advice and perhaps try on a few different types.

Alternatively I think some BabyCalm teachers act as babywearing consultants and all of the carriers that are sold on their website hold the baby correctly.
The BabyCalm website is HERE and there is a good article here on what you need about choosing a carrier HERE

HTH

Mine didn't nap properly until they were over a year old, and then they realised it was great. Until then I fought and wrestled, and stressed myself out trying to force them to sleep.

The best thing to do is give up and go out. Find somewhere to go to meet a friend for a coffee, or a garden centre to walk round ( dd1 used to nap in the greenhouse in the garden centre - it was warm and humid), go and walk around a mall, whatever. You'll be more relaxed, the baby can sleep in the buggy or car seat if necessary. And you don't spend valuable mental health energy fretting about trying to force a baby to sleep.

Sleep clinic? Nah. Try living an ordinary life, or a bit of light swaddling. Some babies don't nap. Eventually they get it.

I don't think swaddling is advisable over 12 weeks if she is not used to it already but certainly find places to go out such as a shopping centre of garden centre (good idea that one)!

Baby Whisperer has extremely bad advice about putting them down hungry. Feed before a nap - they will sleep better and not wake up because they want a feed.

Wow, I'm off MN for a few days and come back to so much good advice and supportive messages. Thank you.

We had a bit of success this morning where instead of putting her down in her cot I had her with me in the kitchen in the pram and she actually slept for 50mins which was amazing. So Noseynoonoo, you may have a good point...maybe she just hates being on her own. I spent every minute of those 50mins playing with DS...something I haven't been able to do in what seems like ages :-) And that's what I really want...I don't want a break or time to put my feet up or time to do housework, I just want a bit of time to spend one-on-one with my son.

I've been out loads of times with her to shopping centres, garden centres, coffee shops and meeting friends etc and I just find it so stressful. She never sleeps and it just wide awake constantly and more often than not crying. If I sit her up in her pram she's unhappy, if I lie her back with a blanket over the pram (obviously only when she looks pooped!) she screams and she hates me rocking the pram. I just find that if I have to do something I just do it as quickly as possible and then get out of there. And I look at all the other mums with their sound asleep babies and end up feeling so miserable and despondent. She does love being on my lap looking around but very quickly becomes over-stimulated and overtired which leads to meltdown :-(

I was so spoilt by DS...he was the easiest baby. Was sleeping 2 hours in the morning and 2 hous in the afternoon and through the night at this age and I guess he's all I have to compare DD with. I knew I wasn't going to be lucky enough to get that again but I wasn't expecting the polar opposite! I was just hoping for one reasonable nap a day so I can spend that time with DS. I hate feeling like I'm neglecting him.

MillionPramMiles, interesting that you say what helped you was moving DC onto formula. DS was formula fed from 5 weeks (after I went down with flu and dried up!) and never had a problem napping. I've been thinking about moving her onto formula at 6 months so maybe that will help. Here's hoping!

Will look into cranial osteo too. Thanks for the tip.

Hope you find something that works for you soon.

Just to add, I wasn't advising swaddling, merely stating what our nap routine was.

Good luck :)

I've found that babies have good day naps if they have a good sleep settling routine and have a sleep association with a comforter or teddy that is portable. Spend quality time in the nursery at the first signs of tiredness. The nursery needs to be interesting, calming and a place where baby wants to be. Play some relaxing music and hang led battery operated fairy lights to give the nursery the wow factor. Babies like the distraction while they get used to the room. Sit baby on your knee and read a story or sing for a few mins. Give a milk feed 30 mins before sleep time as feeding to sleep is habit forming and babies wake up too.

1. Feeding to sleep is not habit forming, it's nature's best answer to babies napping.

1. Something can't be both interesting (ie stimulating) and calming.

1. The OP's baby is too young to sleep in a room by herself because of the SIDS risk.

Sorry, but that's all complete nonsense about nurseries having a wow factor and fairy lights!

I should also add, if she is sleeping well at night, then try not to let the daytime stuff get to you. Ds1 woke every two hours 24/7 until ten mos (and had to be fed or he screamed incessantly), and dd2 had to be woken every three hours during the night to feed (we had to set our alarm as she was unable to drink during the day, so we had to try and get all of her daily feeds into her during the silent hours). She screamed all day as well, because she was hungry.

These two babies followed my never-napping during the day dd1, who caused me no end of angst. I had to readjust my compass at that point and realised that dd1 was actually the easiest baby of the three. by far. Whether she napped or no.

Be careful of what you wish for, and all that!

I think the CheshireBabyWhisperer must be being sarcastic because there is no way that fairy lights are going to persuade a baby to sleep. They don't need distraction, they need human comfort.

Almost had me there Cheshire!

Something relaxing but engaging (eg fairy lights) help lots of babies to settle.

I really don't understand the snippy reaction to Cheshire's suggestions tbh.

Cheshire's suggestions - on this and other threads - are by and large completely out of date, irrelevant or plain wrong. Also it appears that she's on MN to try and drum up business.

Feeding to sleep does form a habit, its called sleep and most babies grow out of being fed to sleep soon anyway. Feeding to sleep is one of the benefits of bfing and it makes me wonder if you have any experience of bfing cheshire ?