selfish only child / step-parent conflict - any advice? v long, sorry!

[hodgehegs]

Feels like this board is becoming my second home!

This is a recurring theme in my house and causes temporary break ups about twice a year with me and my partner of 4 years. He visits us at weekends but spends the week at his house.

Basic background: previous abusive marriage finished in 2008, dd aged 9 sees dad every other weekend and half the holidays. Totally spoiled by him, which results in behaviour probs when she comes home to me and has to abide by bedtimes, family meals, get up for school etc.

Dad also regularly makes false allegations to social services - they are coming out again tomorrow as he makes a formal complaint every time they investigate us and find nothing is wrong and close the case. This has been going on for over 4 years.

My step-mum died recently and my dad is now on his own (living locally) and he likes to see us at weekends. He emailed me this morning to ask if I'd like a driving lesson (ie to spend some time with us. Step-mum was buried 3 days ago, so sad time, and want to be there for him). Dd also had a party invite for this afternoon with child from a single-parented foreign family, trying to integrate.

Dd refused to go to party, even though I and my relatives have tried to explain it would be a kind thing to do to go to her friend's party even if she doesn't greatly feel like it. This child hasn't had a birthday here before and mum was anxious about how to throw a party.

Dd also threw a wobbler when I told her we would be going out with grandad. She wanted to stay at home and put up the xmas tree and have a friend over (I hadn't agreed to having a friend round, she just decided). Partner and I explained that grandad was lonely due to his wife not being there any more and it would be a kind caring thing to do to go out with him. Explained we could put tree up later.

Cue, stomping, "it's not fair! You've ruined my weekend!" and a door slam into her room, leaving me and partner shocked and upset by her selfish response and total lack of empathy.

Dd was sanctioned - no putting xmas tree up today and explanation given why. Cue more stropping and blaming "you're just doing this to make me upset!" etc and hid in her den in her room.

When it came to get ready to go out I asked her 3 times to come out and do teeth/face/hair. Waited each time, and she didn't come. Finally went back into room, counted down from 3 then sanctioned by banning from computer for the day. More stropping. I explained the reasons why she had been sanctioned. Then OH came in and started his own intervention - "don't speak to your mother like that! You wouldn't be so rude to your teachers" etc, which I have prev asked him not to do, as it inflames the situation I am trying to deal with. I asked him not to interfere and he left the room, whispering from the hall "don't you dare undermine me in front of her!". Now major stress for me trying to deal with 2 of them at once.

Got dd to bathroom, but only by taking by the arm and forcing her there.

Once out, row with OH started (as in prev events) with him angry at me for "undermining him" and me cross as I ask him every time not to get involved and let me sort it out myself, but he butts in and makes the whole thing worse. He then starts with "if you'd listened to me 4 years ago we wouldn't be having this now" and blaming me for slack parenting. I feel he is very strict and doesn't allow for her age and the huge problems caused by her dad and the impression he gives her that she is the centre of the universe and has the right to whatever, whenever she wants. I do discipline her and it makes me frustrated and upset that he doesn't see that.

Stalemate between myself and OH with circular argument of me telling him to back off (as nicely as possible) and him telling me he is right and I should have listened to him in the past (utterly unhelpful!). Escalated to shouting and another breakup, with him grabbing his bags and walking out as my dad arrived at the front door and I burst into tears.

Relationship is usually good btw, except when these incidents happen. So now we are split, maybe just for xmas - we often manage to make up - or maybe for good if he is as fed up as I am with this happening.

I can't see a way forward for us as a family unless I can get dd's behaviour under control, yet sanctions and explanations of acceptable behaviour have little effect when she can go to her dad's and be told the opposite ("Mummy lies, she doesn't know how to look after you" etc) and showered with gifts.

Sorry for long length of this post, just trying to give a full picture, and get it out of my system.

I wondered if anyone knows of any books or stories that I could read which focus on caring for others, empathy, selfishness etc. I currently read her The Hobbit at bedtime, and am thinking of The Water Babies next, as I remember the effect of "do-as-you-would-be-done-by" and "be-done-by-as-you-did" when I was little.

We have a paediatrician appt coming up soon as she has a number of sensory issues, but I can't help but think these problems we have are behavioural rather than her "wiring".

She is now downstairs happily acting like everything is fine. Doesn't seem to care about the effect she has on the whole household. I am currently reading a number of parenting books and trying to follow the advice of - stating the behaviour is unacceptable and why, then sanctioning and walking away to stop the arguing continuing, but not always possible to walk off eg when on a time limit for getting ready to go out, plus when I start to talk to her she just walks off in a huff, so it's hard to even explain to her what she's done wrong without following her round the house talking back to me and denying it the whole time.

If I try and do anything physically (as gently as possible) like holding on to her arm so she can't walk away, or like today when she refused to get ready, leading her to the bathroom, she shouts "you're hurting me" and I'm scared she will tell her dad and SS that I hurt her, and I will permanently lose her to a man who is ruining her personality and manipulating her purely to be "the winner" by turning her against me and trying to get her removed form my care.

What a mess!

I think (sorry if this seems harsh) that you need to allow your partner to comment on your daughter's behaviour.

He lives with her too, you are being manipulated, he must find that very frustrating to watch and live with.

make her earn her screens privileges (computer TV and games), if she is perfectly behaved she gets them the following day, if not total ban, so it up to her if she gets privileges,

when you are both calm sit down and agree strategies that you both are involved in, or this problem will escalate to something a relationship will struggle to survive.

I would really apply yourself to this, as if you don't regain control the teenage years will be unbearable,

you cannot control what goes on else where, so focus on what you can control.

Thanks quotunquote. I appreciate an honest answer.

He only stays over at weekends so doesn't see what goes on during the week and how I do manage things on my own without him.

The problem is we are not on the same page as far as discipline is concerned (though of course we each believe we are right and the other is too harsh/weak), so I feel she doesn't get consistency if I give her a one day ban during the week for talking to me rudely, and he comes along and gives her a whole week ban for the same thing at the weekend, which I then have to enforce in his absence, even if she has had a number of good days after he leaves. When we try and discuss it we end up in stalemate, and after a day like this we can talk (via email) about it for weeks going round in circles until we have to agree to disagree in order to move on and get back together. Would be a shame to have a total split over it as there is much good in our relationship (and his with her) despite the challenges.

Interesting idea to earn her privileges, I hadn't thought of it that way round before. Sounds like it could work, I will give it more thought, and maybe draw up a tick chart of behaviours she needs to show to earn tv/computer.

We currently have a reward chart (20 steps to a castle) and she goes up for a good day and down for unacceptable behaviour. She looks forward to her reward at the top but it doesn't help check her behaviour when she is "in the moment".

The teens is a worry for us. OH fears she may make a serious allegation against him out of spite, esp as her dad has already pointed the finger at him in that way to SS (quite falsely, dad is just sinking as low as he can to get what he wants by any means).

You have to find a way to become a united team,

I do appreciate how difficult it is,

Our eldest has a different father, I've been with DH since he was two, we went through all of this,(he's now 22) his father was/is a popularity tart, so when DS was there his expectations were changed,

DH and I often found it hard to agree on tactics, If I'm honest there are many times where DH was "seeing" things that as a mother I didn't,

we have other children, it's just the same, I think the step parent bit is a red herring, I think the two parents part of family life is so important because it creates a balance.

If you find yourself being drawn in to the challenging behaviour , tag team with him, or just take a break, don't get pulled in.

massive of attention when she is well behaved and withdraw at the negative,

don't worry about her wanting to go off and live with her dad because you are the disciplined one, something that plays on everyone in these situations mind, she may well at some point, but if you are the consistent home, she will soon return, they always do.

so don't structure your responses with that fear as a basics.

children frighten themselves when they get out of control, they like to test the boundaries, partly because they subconsciously want to feel safe,

just be totally consistent, pre warn of disciplinary sanctions, and pre discuss tactics, before the situation that involves implementing them occurs.

I find an exercised child cooperates far better, just like a dog, one good sports session a day helps a lot.

Yes, I think in the past, especially when I was shellshocked from my divorce and the continuation of my ex's malicious behaviour, there were things about dd's behaviour that I couldn't see, but my partner could. When she was 4 it was easier to give her the benefit of the doubt or explain it away in other ways, but at 9 it is much clearer.

I am much wiser to those things now, which is why it hurts and frustrates when he harks back to the past every time an issue comes up.

I now have a list of house rules drawn up which I'll go over with her after dinner.

I also have other children and there is no divorce in the offing. But my daughter 10 can behave in the same way. And she behaves particularily badly if she senses conflict between me and her Dad. Children are acutely sensitive to bad vibes, even if they seem to lack empathy in other areas

I suspect what is going on is that your daugher doesn't want you to agree with your OH and is doing everything in her power to create division between you,so that she has you to herself.

I think your OH is completely out of order in trying to discipline her in this way, when you are doing things differently. He is creating serious problems for her perception of him as an ogre, especially if he is only turning up at weekends.

Oh yes and lots of children do the You are Hurting Me tactic (whilst simultaneously kicking their parents in the shins) They say it because they are feeling very very stressed. I recommend you stop the hardline tactics, and work on the sympathy between you stuff, to decrease her likehood of flying off the handle. I keep recommending the same book, but it works How To Talk So Kids Will Listen by Faber.

Also the defending of her own plans against yours seems to be a completely age typical response. She doesn't sound more selfish than a lot of children of my acquaintance.

So, in short, get her on your side. and the rest will follow. Read the book.

She is now downstairs happily acting like everything is fine. Doesn't seem to care about the effect she has on the whole household.

I think you need to be careful in thinking this way. Would you really want her to feel responsible for splitting up her family? It's not typical for a child to have to deal with rows over their behaviour which leads to regular break ups. I have a SS, and it was such a huge commitment for me to get into a relationship with his father rather than a childless man because you take on a certain responsibility for not giving the kid a disruptive home life- I would not walk out of this relationship unless it was over something very serious, like an affair. I think you and your OH need to have a serious talk in which you decide to either split or decide to have one last serious go at it, in which he gets more rights to parent his step child but also more responsibilities not to walk out on her.
You should aim to create a step parent bond between the two of them, not separate them out as 'my daughter' and 'my other half, who is allowed no say in my daughters upbringing', or they'll never be able to live together, IYSWIM.

Thanks swanthingafteranother. Your words reminded me - although she does love my OH (and obviously doesn't want me to agree with his harder take on discipline), when we have talked about our family and the future, she has told me she doesn't want him moving in or for us to get married (also doesn't want us to have more children, though it was ok for her dad to remarry and breed!), she said she wants me all to herself. Feels a bit unfair to me, and we are together without him all week at present, yet towards the end she is always asking "is he coming over today?" and disappointed if he isn't. Not sure what point I'm trying to make, just thinking it through.

I do have the "How to talk" book but I think I must be going wrong somewhere - when you use open ended questions and give space for them to talk about their feelings, it all gets directed back at me - she's generally upset because she wants to do something that isn't practical eg start a craft project at bed time, or expects a friend round at the weekend with no notice, so letting her talk just means she rants about how mean I am and I won't give her what she wants.

Pointing out things that need doing (as in the towel and milk examples in the book) results in replies such as "I'll do it later" and then it not being done, or on a bad day a flat refusal. Perhaps I need to go back and read it again.

It's nice to know she sounds fairly typical for her age. It's easy to imagine everyone else's children are well behaved and polite all the time!

Thanks mintberry. It's not that I want her to feel bad, and I'd certainly never guilt trip her by saying it's her fault when there's been an argument, I just find it a little odd that she seems to brush it aside so easily.

Her behaviour and attitude has been good for the rest of the day though and she has just asked if she can help me make dinner, perhaps that is her way of trying to put things right.

Was confused a little - when I wrote SS it stands for social services, took me a while to figure out yours meant step-son. I am a bit new to all the abbreviations on here!

They do have a good bond, which centres around playing games on the computer, craft projects, or when we take her out on her scooter, but I have tried to keep him out of discipline because of the differences we have. In the past I have felt torn between either standing by what I saw as a harsh punishment from him due to the way he interpreted a situation (eg him thinking she did something on purpose rather than by accident), leading to feeling wrong in myself and upset at seeing her unhappy, or standing up for what I believe and the way I have been raising her, which means disagreeing with him and resulting in a row.

We do miss him very much when he is gone, but it's hard for us to be together for any length of time without a conflict coming up that we can't find a middle ground on.

He was raised in a very strict family with a controlling father and has a zero-tolerance approach to behaviour, which comes from working with teens. I feel that's too harsh - it certainly was for her when she was 4, yet that is the time he rakes up again as when I should have done what he said.

I do give him some responsibility for sanctions - if she speaks to him in a disrespectful way I step back and let him deal with it verbally. I just wish he would let me deal with her myself when an issue arises between me and her.

You are right, I don't like the instability of us being on and off, it's not good for any of us. Each time we separate I think it's forever, and each time we get back I also think, right this is it, we can stick together and get through this.

I guess I need to make contact with him now and see what we can agree on.

in haste, I think there is a convo in that book where the daughter wants a sleepover at short notice and parent cannot organise it (she has something else arranged already) Daughter is very demanding, but parent stops "princess" behaviour escalating.
I don't think the how to talk is meant to be just let them talk, it is more, let them come up solutions, whilst making it clear what the issues/boundaries are.. And listening to their solutions. Not just telling them what to do, or letting them tell you what to do.

Btw, I think you are making excuses for your OH's behaviour to your daughter; just because there is a reason for being very controlling (his own childhood experiences), doesn't it make it right that he should be controlling. And it is obviously not working is it his method? I'm not going to let her talk to me like that spiel is quite worrying. It is not about him. It is about her learning to respect him, and not wanting to talk to him like that.

I don't think you have to compromise on discipline issues, when he is the one being harsh. Ever. I think he is the one who needs to think about his own experiences as a child and how it made him feel to be treated in the way he is suggesting.

And as for saying, if you had listened to me earlier...how is that helpful? He needs to come up with practical suggestions for now, not start blaming you.

And also to talk of her as acting out of "spite" doesn't sound as if he is particularily fond of her

Thanks.

I'll try and find time to read that book again.

I don't want to make excuses for my OHs behaviour (though perhaps I do), but I do understand where it comes from.

He repeatedly makes that useless claim that if I'd done exactly what he said 4 years ago we wouldn't be here now. Though there is no proof of that, it's just his belief, and as long as I choose to parent her in the way that I believe is right, I will not be doing 100% what he tells me, which to him is proof that I'm wrong. It's very frustrating, but I have tried to work with it as best as I can because he brings many good things to our family, which were lacking in my marriage.

I don't want to give control of parenting my daughter to him and have it damage her in order to prove to him that his way isn't ideal and there is a middle ground and a better way.

As you say, I want her to learn to respect us because she has sound values, not to behave because she fears us.

Just seen your extra note - I think he has a suspicious mind from working with teens in rough schools, who certainly can be spiteful. He's not used to living with children, let alone younger ones and doesn't realise that the dynamic in a home is not the same as in keeping an unruly class under control. I don't know how to teach him that, unfortunately.

I think the issues you are discussing here aren't really about dd, more about your relationship with OH. She is certainly picking up on the issues, and maybe even exploiting them. She is only 9, no wonder she finds it confusing. What I feel is that you are laying loads of problems at her Dad's door (and you have no control over those things as you say, except your dd's perception of them) Yet you are struggling to be assertive over the problems you can take responsibility for, eg: OH's treatment of dd. If he was your dd's Dad would his behaviour be acceptable in the family home or would he now be an ex too?

In the end, your family is you and DD not the OH.

I bet your dd is very happy with you, but just feels a bit on edge waiting for your OH to tick her off even if she enjoys some of the activities he is providing. She is 9, how is she going to articulate any of this stuff, except by sounding off. It is the end of term, she is probably tired out like the rest of us, and just wants to curl up in her own safe house, no demands to be good, or kind. The last thing she needs is some big dramatic family drama, she has already probably been very upset over your Dad and Stepmum, and knows that you are upset. It is not surprising she is not behaving particularily well.

You are having to deal with a lot too, not the least of which is this extremely selfish demanding OH who wants you to agree with him and put him FIRST.

So I think you should just enjoy your daughter and look after your poor Dad, and stop giving your energy to this man until everything is a bit less overwhelming. If he has any love or responsibility in him he will recognise it is not ABOUT HIM.

Hmm, I think I am much stronger than when with my ex. I do stand up for myself, and don't back down when others tell me what to do, and I don't allow myself to be the scapegoat any more.

Our relationship isn't perfect but it is the best I can remember ever having, which is why I keep going and keep trying to work things out between us all. there usually isn't a problem between us until my dds behaviour deteriorates.

If he was her dad perhaps I would put up with worse, as I did before, when guilt at separating father and daughter kept me in an abusive situation for much longer than I should have tolerated it. I don't know what would happen if I were back there again. This is a different situation and I don't feel like the same person I was back then. Less inclined to put up with behaviour I don't like now, which is why I tell him to go when it gets to this point. His behaviour is nowhere near as bad as my ex's.

Yes, we have been through a lot recently. Perhaps that has affected her behaviour this weekend.

Thanks for your comments.