Very emotional boy, sorry its me again...

[BekkiKay]

Its my ds1 again. To give you the background - I've always been slightly worried about his behaviour, even from birth.
He has always been very 'difficult', incredibly stubborn, boisterious and highly strung.
For example he'll ask for a choc bar, I'll say no you've just had one. He'll then screw his face up, cry real tears, scream, kick and shout 'I hate you' for about an hour. Its the length of time that he carries things on for that bothers me really.
He is 3 and a half and has about 10 full on tantrums a day.
He gets so upset about the tiniest things and is quite obsessive in his behaviour.
Today a friend at playgroup said that he hated my ds and then he screamed at him not to say 'hate' and then bit him on his arm. It was hard enough to leave a bite mark. I'm mortified by his behaviour and to be honest this is the last straw, I'm thinking that there might be something not quite right about his extreme reactions to everyday situations.
Can anyone offer any help, I'm very worried about him.

Been thinking about you Bekki.

I hope the referral to the EP will be helpful and that you don't have to wait too long.

EP will probably want to do some observations of your DS at playgroup. I actually found it very helpful when the paediatrician and the EP did this with DS - one thing that did emerge was that his nursery could and should have been doing a lot more to help him integrate with other kids. They were actually quite critical of the nursery. The nursery manager never really forgave us - not that I care about that!

Oh Bekki I absolutely HATED people telling me that ds1 wouldn't hurt himself if I ignored his headbanging. What they didn't realise is that when he has lost it he will throw himself full pelt into glass, or straight onto concrete. And he had the bruises to proove. His headbangin is very diet related (gluten and peanuts being the main culprits) What is your son's diet like?

Your HV sounds useless I have to say. Any chance of swapping to a more sympathetic one? Ed psych is a good idea- good one's are very helpful so fingers crossed. And as dinosaur said nurseries vary a lot. Ds1's current one is wonderful and staffed with wonderful wonderful people. His first one wasn't fit to look after animals.

I do have a punishment for ds1 caled "putting you outside the room"-- for 10 seconds and he understands that it means that he has gone too far (although he may not understnad why). It is reserved for very serious misdemeanours (like kicking the cat or hurting his brother). BUT it is for 10 seconds- and NOT done in the middle of a tantrum. I agree I couldn't leave him in the room during a tantrum as I think he would destroy it - or serioulsy damage himself.

Hope you don;t have too big a headache- I ALWAYS have headaches after these things. Have a bath/drink/whatever tonight to relax.

Well done for getting the referral.

Well since ds1 was born I have seen no fewer than 8 different HV's.
This ones a bit useless but aren't they all. In her defense though she did say that the playgroup should explain their actions and can't refuse to give me the name of the person who spotted ds1 in playgroup. She said that she would make sure that every bit of information would be passed back to me directly.
Diet-he eats everything! Its impossible to pin point something that might be causing the head banging. I've eliminated single items of food but no sucess. If its a combination of foods causing the problem then we will have a job on our hands trying to figure them out.
10 seconds sounds a bit more acceptable than 4 minutes! Imagine what an angry 3 year old could do given that time frame!

sonnett- THANKS FOR MAKING MY DAY! I am in the middle of weiting to the SENCo at the school and to the Autism Outreach team to try and get some things in place for my 10yr old (asperger's) and to bring to light my dissapointment in how little notice is being taken of my difficulties with ds2 who i'm sure has Asperger's too....however as i keep telling myself - we have the 'family' assessment on 23rd feb- but i am so scared that they will say it's 'all in my head' as i have depression/anxiety- though i know that it isn't. I just hate confrontation- this is why i do much of my contact through email/letters etc...

BEKKI- well done you! I am so relieved that the daft bat had the sense to at least refer you to the EP- the headbanging advise is nonsense- NONE of 'challenging' behaviour should be ignored- i know someone who's son had an extremely high pain threshold so he could bang till he bled- and still carry on- he would not stop- she to be 'taught' to restrain him- and then used to rock herself (with him still tightly restrained) for at least 10 minutes) until he calmed down- i myself have had my lip cut amongst other injuries- and ds2 was so 'sudden' with his body movements that as a toddler i would frequently almost drop him when he had a 'bang' I still have weak wrists- and i honestly believe this is from having to hold such 'strong' babies- ds3 was the only one who didn't fight my attempts to dress/cuddle/feed etc.I do hope that we get a referal too!

Big hugs, honey. Good luck with the next hurdle.
xxxxxxxxxx

I've spoken to the playgroup leader. My HV phoned her straight after our chat.
Shes now saying that its a problem with his behaviour rather than anything socially and educationally wrong with him.
I wish I didn't know what goes on at playgroup now. He has been having forms filled out on his behaviour for 6 weeks! No one told me about that either. He hits, instinctively rather than maliciously, runs around and throws things and has sworn twice. They've taken him out of the Monday afternoon lessons for the older children because he can't sit still. I'm so upset at the moment. I'm so awful. My little boys swears because my husband sometimes swears. He hits probably because we used to smack him for really bad behaviour. He throws and runs around probably because I'm such a crap mum. This is the most awful day I have had so far.

Bekki Bekki Bekki

I have a friend (well friend of a friend) going through exactly the same thing with her little boy at the moment. I have watched her wth him and she is a GREAT mum. I have observed her little boy and think he a)certainly has sensory issues and b)may be high functioning autistic (although it depends on how he matures).

Your playgroup leader sounds crap (is she?) Your HV certainly sounds crap. Most HV are very unaware of developmental problems. If the ed psych referall has still been made I would ignore what the HV etc have said and wait for his/her assessment. Hopefully you'll get a good one.

Meanwhile if the playgroup is a bit crap it might be worth asking around to see if you can find a better one. DS1's has a reputation for ebing good with SN and "challenging" or slightly "different" children.

I just feel so inadequate as a mum. I've tried my hardest but I'm not perfect. I've made mistakes (I was only young when I had him) but surely parenting is not this hard. It can't be.
The playgroup leader says that he will probably have to have someone sit with him when he goes to school. My baby, what have I done to him?
I think the only thing worse than having a diagnosis is not having one. I hope the EP can help us.
Jimjams, again thank you for listening and giving some sensible advice.

Oh, Bekki, IT ISN'T YOU. Read through all the behaviour and development and parenting threads and you will find almost everyone who posts here feeling guilty about something they did or didn't do, and our own parents probably felt the same. Perfect parents may well make mistakes of the moment, try things out and then try somehting different. We can only learn to parent each individual child by trial and error.
So sorry you're feeling so low: It's not surprising given what you've been through, and the rather inadequate professional supoprt you have had. But you have persevered, and been a GOOD and loving Mum.

No I'm going to think about this sensibly.
Ds1 was picked out by someone who knows what they are talking about. She/he pointed ds1 out of the rest of the playgroup as displaying odd behaviour. At the time he was being as good as gold.
I have had my concerns for a long while.
I'll let the EP decide.
Right I'm back on track now.

Thanks Blu.
I never believed in smacking until ds1 got to about 2 years of age and then there seemed no other options.
If I had received the help at that time I could have sat here smug as anything saying no we never gave any physical punishment whatsoever. But now I have guilt and rightly so.
I'be brought a few books on parenting and a book called the indigo child I remember someone briefly mentioning this somewhere, I'll get stuck into those.

Honey, NOBODY is a perfect mum. The mothers of the most docile, well behaved children in the world are not perfect mums. I am so sorry today is so awful. Hugs.

Your most recent description of how the playgroup deals with him is dreadfully sad - especially that they have been choosing to decide when and how they think he is a problem, and what to do about it, without telling you! Can you find an alternative (like Jimjams said)? And you sound like such a loving, thoughtful mother, he is so lucky to have you; this cannot be your fault.

Just on nurseries, heard this from friend: mother continually told that her little boy was getting on absolutely fine, and then by pure chance she saw an internal form which said "X sits by himself in the sandpit all day long, we think he may be autistic." Can you imagine?

Oh! Bekki! I really feel so sad for you- you are blaming yourself when there is no need. The problem with developmental delay issues is that it is the 'Behaviour' that people notice- and to the 'untrained eye' my sons appear to be rude,spoilt and rough (to put it politely) - I just wish there were a bloodteat that we could do (though getting the sample would be a job in itself) - so that we could simply test for a missing chromosome or an added gene that would confirm a diagnosis . This would stop so many of us blaming ourselves for how hard our children find it to simply get through each day. We KNOW that there ARE parents who don't care or ABUSE their children- but they are certainly not going to be 'wasting' their time on here asking for help- you are not a bad mum-YOU ARE A LOVING AND CARING MUM- and like you I had no idea how hard parenting would be- but i try to confort myself that if all those 'KNOW-IT-ALLS' were to 'spend a day in my shoes' then they would see the difference between parenting a 'the NT way' and 'My Way'.....GoD! I'm getting big headed again! Often when i'm told my autistic son does just the same as someones NT son...i've started thinking -"well just maybe 'they' have an autistic child too....difference being they don't know it and he doesn't benefit from the support that my son's get.....Now who is right?? I'll carry on my way!There are many undiagnosed children being screamed at by teachers and parents for appearing 'naughty' when infact they are behaving in a way out of their control due to a developmental delay.

Take one step at a time and remember that we are all here.(on a BAD day... i crave getting on the p.c - just to tell you all my thoughts- somebody always posts- even if it's just to say they care.)

Bekki- I hate to say this but if you are a young mum you are going to get patronised. So read as much as you can, and ask the EP a few questions. Mention things to her like you're nto sure whether he pointed etc- keep him/her on their toes (Don't worry all mums get patronised by the professionals but they have a particularly bad attitude to young or single mums).

If you're not happy with the playgroup don't feel bad about moving him. it can make a world of difference to the way you feel as well if you know nursery are on side. I think I know more people who have had to swap nurseries when their children turned out to have issues (whether that was just immaturity or SN) than have been able to keep them in the same one.

When ds1 was dxed we went on an NAS earlybird programme. The parenting tips it gave were very good (and also useful for ds2- who is completely NT). So for example with regard to tantrums - analyse why they are happening. DS1 would often have tantrums if he thought we were going to one place and we went somewhere else. SO now every trip out of the house starts with me saying "where are we going" waiting for the response and then replying with a "yes (or no) we're going to X".

Also reduce your language. So rather than sayong "righto X we're off to see granny and then we're going to go and get a paper so put your coat on" say "X coat"

Also keep langiuage positive rather than saying "don't jump on the bed" (as they will hear"jumo on the bed" say "get down". (I find adding a job help- so get down followed by "come and help me tidy up".

Reducing my language really helped with ds1. But analyse why tantrums are happening first of all. The you can work on avoiding the triggers.

G;ad you are feeling more positive

Just to add to MrsF's excellent comments- I just carried my 2 year old ds2 screaming to the car- he was having a tantrum over a bananan (as you do) but no-one is really fussed as he's 2- so that's normal behaviour. The problem with ds1 kicking off at 4 and a hlaf is that his behaviour is not acceptable for a child his age, so people start judging. Of course if they realised that he has the language development of an 18month old then they may realise that actually his behaviour is perfectly appropriate for his level of maturity.

Dear Bekki, I've just read right through your thread. I was interested because my ds1 is three and I often wonder about his behaviour and if it fits into established "norms."
I know you have long-term concerns about your son's tantrums and anger management, but I think the comments your playgroup leader made about swearing, hitting and running about are a little out of line. Maybe there are other issues the playgroup has concerns about, but the three that you mention do not appear to me to be an indication of out-of-norm behaviour and are most definitely not due to some fault in your parenting.
1: SWEARING -- haven't we all been there? This week, ds1 has started saying "Oh F*" every time we get stuck in a traffic jam, and also in playschool. I guess he is copying me; maybe he is copying one of his classmates (she writes hopefully) Who knows? But I don't see it as a reflection of bad parenting.

2: HITTING -- I've never hit ds1, but that doesn't stop him hitting other people. Everyone has to find the best way of dealing with their child. It may be that your ds does not respond well to occasional smacks for really bad behaviour. But I don't see how you become a bad mother for trying that route.

3: NOT SITTING STILL -- Why is your son running around? Does he find the class boring? Does he not understand what he is meant to do? What does the playgroup do to help him? They just throw him out of the class?

Although I'm English, I don't live in England. I live in Malaysia and before that I lived in China for 10 years. I am always surprised when I go back to England about how narrow the "norms" of behaviour are, how much children are expected to conform to these, and how quickly blame is apportioned (normally on the mother) when behaviour is outside "norm." I don't mean to come across as someone who is trying to belittle the difficulties you have with ds1, or to be over-critical of England, but from what you've posted, I think your playgroup leader really isn't providing support or guidance.
I sincerely hope things improve with the EP. Are there other nurseries in the area you could consider?

Its wonderful that we can all support each other. I really feel for others who don't have the benefit of pcs to get in touch with others who are going through similar experiences.
I have decided to keep himat the playgroup as they have his best interests at heart and they can offer alot of insight into his behaviour over the last 14 months.
As a young mum I get patronised every time I leave my house. This is another reason why it is so hard for me to drop my guard and admit that we need help. The HV was very patronising but I don't blame her its a natural reaction. But she did seemm to be asking far too many personal questions for my liking. "Is that man your husband? Is he the father of both of your children? This house is housing association isn't it? " The usual nosy patronising drivel. The whole experience wans't helped by my dh who stubbed his toe upstairs and then tripped over a wire, I think he yelled out every swear word under the sun at that moment, much to my HV bemusement. Nevermind.
The parenting tips that you are describing Jimjams, are the same ones that I'm currently reading up on. They worked brilliantly for 4-5 days but now have little effect, the same as everything I try really. But I will carry on with it because I think its the best way of communcating to him.

I think your right Lorien.
Its nothing out of the ordinary. But perhaps its the way that hes doing it. I don't know. But all of the other children who are younger are much better behaved. I send him to a playgroup out of catchment so that I can send him to a better school and I often wondered whether the children were better behaved than my ds1 because they were from a more affluent area.
I think all 3 year olds are challenging.

bekki- i am by no means a 'young' mum- but definitely identify with being patronised- I am an outpatient of the local mental health hospital- and am as far as i know diagnosed with Depression/anxiety and obsessive tendancies...and hopefully asperger's soon! I am fortunate that i therefore see a psychologist every tuesday and have a home visit from a mental health social worker at least monthly- she helps me deal with alot of the issues i face ref school etc and gets involved if people aren't taking me seriously - before christmas she wrote to my ds1's paed to assure her that though i have mental health difficulties- that I am not 'imagining'my ds2's problems- and she pointed out how good a mum i am!- and she will help me if the assessment we are going to proves a waste of time.

So i am the 'queen' of 'Patronising'.....so i again really feel for you!