Very emotional boy, sorry its me again...

[BekkiKay]

Its my ds1 again. To give you the background - I've always been slightly worried about his behaviour, even from birth.
He has always been very 'difficult', incredibly stubborn, boisterious and highly strung.
For example he'll ask for a choc bar, I'll say no you've just had one. He'll then screw his face up, cry real tears, scream, kick and shout 'I hate you' for about an hour. Its the length of time that he carries things on for that bothers me really.
He is 3 and a half and has about 10 full on tantrums a day.
He gets so upset about the tiniest things and is quite obsessive in his behaviour.
Today a friend at playgroup said that he hated my ds and then he screamed at him not to say 'hate' and then bit him on his arm. It was hard enough to leave a bite mark. I'm mortified by his behaviour and to be honest this is the last straw, I'm thinking that there might be something not quite right about his extreme reactions to everyday situations.
Can anyone offer any help, I'm very worried about him.

That's a good point. DS1's first nursery was a disaster. he wasn't disruptive just odd (wanted to look a books rather than play in a group with a ball for example). IME many nurseries and playgroups cannot cope with any child who is slightly different. They want neat little children who will sit in neat little rows.
Our experience at that nursery was so bad I kept him out for almost a year and then on a very strong recommendation put him into a small nursery. It has been wonderful. The staff are fantastic. The manager is great and has provided a lot of support to our family as well as ds1. Just having them in a place where you know they are valued despite their problems makes such a difference to handling the day to day things which crop up.

agree with jimjams point about 'neat little children sitting in neat little rows' I think its probably the hardest movement for a child under 10 to master is the art of 'sitting still' .

sss

Agree that the right playgroup can make all the difference. Ds1's playgroup is in a community hall but the staff bend over backwards to help him. I really couldn't ask for better care. Across the road is a purpose-built playgroup and they would be an absolute nightmare. They are very big on having the children sitting still and being quiet for long periods, which ds1 would never have coped with.

At least you would get some peace of mind and know that your ds was getting the best possible care from experienced and well-trained staff.

Sorry about my last posting - been having a bit of trouble getting back in...

Bekki - sounds like you're having a tough call with this one. I haven't a solution but join elena with my sympathy and hope you can get this sorted very soon.

Thanks again. Its nice to get the emotional support on here let alone all the wonderful practical advice too.
O.k, tomorrows to do list-
Phone HV,
Take him to playgroup and have a 'word' with the leaders,
really consider the pros and cons of taking him out of playgroup and joining another nursery,
buy the books mentioned on here,
get ds1 's hair cut!!!! off topic but it really needs doing.
I'll let you all know how it goes. How on earth do I get in touch with my HV I don't even know who she is, I've had 6 different HV visit since ds2 was born.

Oh thanks for reminding me Maryz. I must buy some eye Q stuff. And sort his diet out. Its an obvious one but watching him today he went crazy after a little bit of sugar.

Bekki - I'd ring your GP surgery and say you want to contact your HV and could they tell you exactly who they are and give you a contact number ? I can't add any constructive advice, but just wanted to wish you luck with the HV, nursery etc. I've been fobbed off by several HVs about DD, who finally is hopefully going to be assessed for dyspraxia. It's only now with her excellent reception teacher that I'm finally getting somewhere.

I just thought I'd give you a quick update-
I took him to playgroup yesterday as ds1's favourite leader was there (he loves her to pieces-he says). She is only one that I think is any good at her job. He got on really well. I was a little worried as yeasterday was his first day of being in the older childrens section. This just means that they come a bit later, bring a packed lunch and they have to sit down alot more. But although he had his usual difficulties with sitting still he had no other problems.
I spoke to our favuorite leader aftetrwards and she said that I was right to get him assessed as he does seem to have alot of problems with frustration and anger.
I phoned the HV but I can't get an appointment until the beginning of next month. But at least its made now.
I have bought 3 bottles of Eye-Q, which to my surprise he loves!
So we are making some progress, thanks for all of your support and if there are any developments I'll let you all know.

I ahve been informed that ds1 might have some sort of learning difficulty.
Apparently someone picked him out at playgroup as a child that didn't quite fit in with everyone else and that he should get evaluated. Something to do with him having his back to the other kids when he tries to complete puzzles.
The leaders mentioned filling in an icp (?)
I don't know I just want to protect him from everyone.
HV was unbelievably crap. When I eventually got through to her she said 'well it wasn't me who said that what do you want me to do about it?' I really couldn't believe the stupidity of the woman. She coming round on Wednesday but I don't like the idea of talking about my little boy to a stranger whilst hes there listening.
Dh and my mum are outraged by the suggestion that theres something wrong with him. Dh wants me to take him out of the playgroup.

Questions ~ Whats an icp? I could have got that wrong btw.
The HV seemed concerned that the palygroup had a special needs evaluator to come and look at the children. I don't get it, does this happen?
What sort of problems do educational psycologists deal with exactly, please don't say educational.
I'm so confused, what are they saying is wrong?

Anyone...

Just bumping this up to the top for you Bekki.

Sorry I can't help any further.

Bekki, just wanted to post as you've had no replies yet. I'm sorry you're so (understandably) upset. It sounds like the staff at playgroup and your HV have handled all this as badly as they possibly could and left you upset, confused and angry. I don't know what an icp is, but I'm sure someone else will.

I can relate to how you are feeling. My ds1 had a lot of socialisation problems when he started nursery. I was blissfully unaware til his teacher grabbed me one day and said they were concerned he might be autistic. I knew he wasn't but was horrified to hear he didn't speak, interact with other children, play with anything, eat, or make eye contact. Anyway, this is not really of relevence to you BUT I felt exactly the same as you do - I just couldn't believe it was happening and that they were talking about giving my child a Statement of Special Needs. Ds1 was fine - he just took longer to get used to being alone in a nursery environment that most children (and he never did at that nursery!)

From your first post, you are very concerned about him - at least they have recognised there may be a problem, but it sounds like they are handling it in entirely the wrong way. I'm sure others will have far better, practical advice, I just wanted you to know that I do sympathise and understand how you are feeling - it's as though the floor has just vanished from under your feet.

Good luck, and I hope you get some answers.

Thanks Emma and marthamoo.
It feels awful. I don't know why because I thought there might have been something wrong but I have been saying this for 3 and a half years!
When I went to pick him up from playgroup I asked for the name and number of the special needs person so that I could pass it on to my HV. But they were shifty about it all. Have they done something wrong?

Has an Educational Psychologist been into playgroup? Who has said he should be assessed? If they are acting shifty could it be because they should have had your permission to ask an E.P. to look at him?

When I was told that they thought my ds1 had problems I was so shocked I could barely speak, let alone make any sensible response to what they were telling me. TBH, I just wanted to get us both home so I could have a good sob. When I had calmed down, I sat and wrote down all my thoughts and questions and the following day went in armed with that and asked for everything to be explained to me. Could you do that and speak to the playgroup leader who you get on well with? Once you have formulated what you want to say don't let them fob you off - he is your son, and you have a right to know what they are up to. Try to think of it as a tentatively positive start - they are going to assess him and see if he needs extra help. But they should be doing this WITH you, not excluding you from the process. Make it clear (while staying calm) that they have not handled it well and that you have been upset - and in future, you want to be consulted about everything they are doing.

Just feeling heaps for you and hoping you get some useful help from the health visitor- you mentioned you'd been 'nigled about something for 3 years' and no-one listened- would that 'fit' with them saying he was 'sitting with his back toi the others'...ie are you thinking of autism etc...or did you have totally 'unrelated' concerns.....I hope you don't mind the 'direct' approach....I just thought I may be of help as my ds1 and 2 both were 'noted' at nursery- and i spent most of their pre-school years feeling 'outcast' and planning to change nurseries....however even that felt too daunting.

On a possitive note..... 'IF' they are 'finally' noticing what you've been saying all along (is that you at the start of this thread...bekkikay?...or have i got the wrong end of the stick!) ....then you can see this as the beginning of finally getting help and support.

I apologise if i have 'read' too much into this....I probably has AS myself and tend to get too carried away

Whatever is going on I feel for you and hope you feel better tomorrow.

Its an IEP- stands for individual education plan. Don't worry about that its just a litst of targets. So my son's had tihngs like undo zio with adule help etc

All LEAs employ people who visit nurseries to observe children. They go under different names in different areas. Ours is called the preschool adivsory service. My son's was petty ineffectual but some can be good.

Don't worry about doing something "wrong". You are his mum and you know him better than anyone else. You're entitled to ask for the names of people seeing your child. I look back to my early days dealing with these people (I recognised your post) and realise how different I am now- Hopefully you don't need to get used to it as I have, but do not feel intimidated by them. They are there to help your son.

Ed psychs look at development. They are psychologists but not as well trained as clinical psychologists. They tend to assess in educational environments, and are involved with things like statementing (sounds like you are a long way form that though so don't panic).

Do you still think something may be wrong? If you do don't feel guilty. DH's and Granny's are invariably outraged if someone suggests something may be wrong. I used to have to hide my autism books under the bed (seriously). If you do think something may be wrong, its worth starting the assessments. Don't worry though nothing that has been put in place yet is particularly high intervention. It's good if they're jumping in too fast rather than too slow.

things like undo zip with adult help I mean

Yes I'm BekkiKay.
Autism has been a concern. But I don't know. I thought autism would be easy to recognise. He behaves in extremes, very nice and happy and then upset shouting hysterically. Theres no inbetween. He either loves people or hates them.
Hes a very sensitive highly strung 3 year old who needs very careful persistant guidance in behaviour.
He is bright but refuses to cooperate with learning. So he can never be taught at the same pace as everyone else.
The more I think about it the more upset I get.
Sorry about typos and spelling, I can't be bothered to check posts through today.
I think they must have done something wrong. They wouldn't give me his/her name but told me to tell my hv to phone the playgroup to get in touch. How can someone go and watch my son without permission and pass judgement and I can't talk to them. I'm getting very angry now. My poor baby.

Thanks jimjams.
I know its for his own good but I'm just feeling a mixture of emotions right now.

You should be allowed to talk to them. Tell them you want to talk to them after they have observed your son - this is normal practice. I wouldn;t ask permission I would just ask what time you need to be there to talk to the person. I always meet professionals after they have observed my son and have a chat.

Autism (especially high functioning) isn't always easy to spot. My son for example is very loving and affectionate. However being highly strung doesn't make a child autistic. And neither a pre-school advisory or ed psych person can diagnose autism. You would need that to come from a developmental pead-. so you are a long way from needing to worry about that at the moment iyswim. hang in there-0 and insist that you talk to the person after they have observed.

Are there lots of different types of autism? Are some more difficult to spot than others?

When my ds1 was in his 3rd year of school he was said to be 'fitting in ' in the october parents evening- then by december he was suddenly 'autistic'....ofcourse this wasn't strictly true- it's just that the teacher made a BIG mistake- she 'diagnosed ' him- and SHE is not qualified.....at the time i wanted to take him home and cocoon him away- i still have days like that now and he is 10- but really i did 'know' all along- it's just that in his case we had 'accepted' and ADHD DX and the medication worked- so i suppose we thought THAT was IT....and IT was ENOUGH....and we understood that with ADHD we could help him....whereas with Asperger's all i could think of was a silent child in an alien world..... which in his case has simply not been the case.

JimJams is right about how strong you become- but first comes the anger and tears of frustration- With ds1 I felt i went through a full 'grieving' process....thinking of all the things i'd planned to do that I now couldn't- but then i realised that all that had happened was 'my plans had been changed' and on a good day i look back and feel contented- because he is my son. With ds2 i had none of the 'hyperactivity' so had much more of the solitary play and he too would turn his back to others- and to be honest by the age of 2 i realised that 'something' was not right- however because at that time i was not genned up on autism -I still had no thoughts on that- then he was noted at his 3yr check to be lining things up- and he'd had fits- and he could not speak clearly till nearly 5- not bad i know- but as i am a chatterbox- people commented on his 'slow' speech- however i know 5 is not a problem to master speech really!