Vaccinations

[redkaybee]

Quick question on the controversial topic of vaccinations. I suggested to my gp I would like to consider a delayed vaccination schedule for my daughter. After the 5 in 1 she was inconsolable and now suffers reflux. I do want to vaccinate but not so many all at once. The Ho consulted with st thomases children's hospital and was apparently advised against a spread out schedule so I have been told follow the nhs schedule or I must go private for an alternative schedule. Is there anyone out there in london who has managed an alternative vacc schedule from an nhs gp?
Many thanks in advance

Oh not at all an unbiased account of Wakefield and his research then Leonie . Do people really still trust doctors that have been struck-off then?

Never read the memories...does he go into much detail about the MMR research?

Spacing out vaccines with no good reason is surely not in the best interests of the child? I think most doctors would see allowing a child to go unvaccinated over a longer period than neccessary is bone fide not acting in the best interests of that child.

But there. I've had this argument many times. If people really want to trust what they find on the internet, the opinion of one GP and place faith in unproven theories over the current advice based on good science, good intentions and backed by nearly all doctors, specialists and others, then best of luck to them. I hope they won't need it.

LeBFG - what in your opinion is classified as 'good reason' - did you read the previous posts which indicate part of my reasoning?

redkay, you've been advised to vaccinate according to the regular schedule. So I'm assuming there is no good reason to spread. I've never been told of a convincing reason to spread actually though some must exist. I've asked on MN many times - I'm genuinely interested to know. I'm not against spreading out per se, just never seen good reasons to do so and so the cost of not vaccinating is simply much greater.

LeBFG I was advised to vaccinate according to schedule. My daughters genetic history wasn't even looked at or taken into account. I don't buy the one size fits all in any area of medicine. There are no guarantees with vaccinations and my gps main concern is herd immunity. I would prefer a proper dialogue to discuss pros and cons that is unbiased but I can't find that anywhere.

Redkaybee, why didn't your GP take genetic history into account - I assume you asked for it to be considered?

I'm not sure what you mean by genetic 'history' redkey.

It is a bit annoying to hear how many HCPs go on about herd immunity with the idea they are guilt-tripping people into vaccinating. The facts are the facts. Immunisation is done (for almost all vaccines) for the benefit of the vacinee. I agree that, given the concerns of a very small but resistant number of families, there should be more support and information available.

"Bruffin ethyl and methyl are different and absorbed in different ways and build up/ clear the system differently"

I do know the difference, it is ethylmercury that is found in vaccines. It is the one that does not build up in the system the same way methyl mercury does.

I would prefer a proper dialogue to discuss pros and cons that is unbiased but I can't find that anywhere. Actually redkey, there are some pretty interesting discussions on the Vaccination board - there are always plenty of posters arguing pros and cons - enough to give you a fair overview of each issue/vaccine to help you make up your own mind.

well then bruffin you will also know that the toxicity for ethyl mercury has not been properly researched. methyl mercury findings have been applied to ethyl mercury - even though the two compounds are obviously different. so what is found in vaccines= not properly investigated.

From the CDC

"Data from many studies show no convincing evidence of harm caused by the low doses of thimerosal in vaccines."

from the FDA website

"Data reviewed did not demonstrate convincing evidence of toxicity from doses of thimerosal used in vaccines. In case reports of accidental high-dose exposures in humans to thimerosal or ethyl mercury toxicity was demonstrated only at exposures that were 100 or 1000 times that found in vaccines."

Data from EVERY studY show no evidence of harm caused by the doses of thimerosal in vaccines."

"ALL EXISTING data did not demonstrate ANY evidence of toxicity from doses of thimerosal used in vaccines. In EVERY case report of accidental high-dose exposures in humans to thimerosal or ethyl mercury toxicity was demonstrated only at exposures that were 100 or 1000 times that found in vaccines."

these would be statements I would be interested in

There are previous threads on the vaccination board re spacing. Catherinajtv (or similar name) is helpful on this topic.

What has 'genetic history' got to do with spreading vaccines?

The only example I've been given is if DC1 has a severe reaction to a combined vaccine then you may want to space out vaccines for DC2+ to see, possibly, which one it was (if the reaction causes the same effect in subsequent children and if you're prepared to take that risk which I'm not sure I would tbh).

a history of serious autoimmune diseases on both parents sides. The concern is that her immune system is very immature hence wanting to space vaccines and vaccinate on a slightly later schedule.

Do you have any real evidence her immune system is immature or is this speculation?

University of Auckland adice on how infants handle immunisation

LeBFG - her age is an indication, the reflux she developed after her 5 in 1 indicates to me that her gut cannot take it. It's incredibly hard to watch a content happy baby turn into a baby screaming with pain on a daily basis - when one can do nothing to help.
Leoni do you believe the autism symptoms would have been the same with vaccinations ? My daughters father has terrible ADHD - his life is severely compromised. She has a one in three chance of developing it. Trials indicate vaccinations are linked to ADHD. I would like to do anything in my capability to prevent the ADHD occurring/becoming pronounced. How has the health of your children been besides the autism?

Well, age isn't an indication (Bruffin's link is really informative). Reflux? I don't think anyone would say this was an indication to not vaccinate tbh (vaccines are intramuscular). I'm even surprised you made the link - it would never have occured to me.

So much changes so quickly when they're little - I'm in the middle of terrible time at the moment - no sleep, moaning and whining, totally out of character, all started overnight and still going on weeks later....but DS is 21 mo and hasn't seen a vax for ages. I'm just trying to make the point that even when things seem correlated, it's not proof they are.

I think you know the research on autism. I've not seen/looked for any research on vaccines and ADHD - perhaps you could link? I know very little about ADHD so correct me if I'm wrong but I've always thought ADHD was exclusively a brain disorder/imbalance not an immune one.

In any case, if I was really worried vaccines would trigger autism/ADHD in my DS, I wouldn't vaccinate....or I would avoid only those vaccines supposedly linked...or I would vaccinate considering the risks from disease were greater. I wouldn't choose to spread vaccines. Worst of both worlds surely.

69.164.208.4/files/Nutritional%20and%20Environmental%20Approaches%20to%20Preventing%20and%20Treating%20Autism%20and%20Attention%20Deficit%20Hyperactivity%20Disorder_0.pdf

This link should give you the information you are lacking on autism and ADHD, the facts are that a child with these difficulties has problems detoxifying heavy metals. nutrition plays a great part in welfare and health. And I could not agree less with your thinking that something is exclusively neurological when a holistic approach can alleviate so many symptoms. Alopecia and vitiligo are the autoimmune diseases - and heavily medicated asthma is another problem. As i stated in my original post I was never looking for a debate but help trying to space vaccines - space to allow time for metals to leave the system , space to allow my child to recover from the immune trickery which can always have a negative response ( this is why i can't find a doctor who will give any guarantees - and before you jump in I know there is no guarantee my child will not catch a disease but it is I who is choosing to inject her with antigens - she is not catching a vaccine)
So no, I disagree , spacing vaccines is not the worst of both worlds. It should be an option available to thos who have considered the vaccine/ non vaccine debate who want to protect their child but in a less aggressive mode.