6 year old boy - I really don't know what to do........

[Pleiades45]

I really need some help with this one. I have 3 boys (7,6 & 4).

My middle child is stressing me out and I've got to the point I really don't know what to do for the best.

If you talk to his teacher he's a well balanced child who is a good all rounder. No particular friend but he plays well with all.

At home, he's a completely different person. All my boys can play well together and like most siblings they have their moments.

I find it increasingly impossible to manage the 6 year old. Something as simple as 'please go and put your shoes on ready to go out' and he's on the floor screaming. He'll answer me back, scream and shout at me and has even punched me with his fists. It's not just me, DH has the same reaction from him and I feel that his attitude is affecting everyone in the house. He will bite his brothers if he doesn't get his way. more and more I'm finding myself having a screaming match with him just to get him to go and stay on a time out. Ignoring him just seems to condone the problems. I feel we're failing him as parents, but I know we're not otherwise he'd be just as bad away from the home and my other boys would be the same as he is . Where are we going wrong?

If asked if anything is bothering him or if he's happy, all seems to be well.

I'm not trying to make excuses for him but when he was 2.5, we moved from Ireland to the UK. I know this caused him some stress and his behaviour was bad then 2 years ago we moved again. Is it possible that he has anxiety issues from the moves that he is unable to express?

He's also on singulair for Asthma and I'm going to stop this because I read on the leaflet that it can cause anxiety and behavioural problems. I'm not convinced but I have to give it a go.

Has anyone else experienced this. I can't keep saying he'll grow out of it and adjust. There must be something we can do.

Attention seeking, methinks. So if you could pay him more 1-to-1 (I know that's easy for me to say!) he might do less of the meltdowns.

I have one of those. I agree it may be attention seeking, not that that makes it any easier for you or happier for him.

My 6 year old is definitely extremely jealous of his brother who is 5. It's really hard to find time for exclusive 1 to 1 when they are so close in age but I think that helps.

Have you tried talking to them all when everyone is calm and agreeing some sort of sanctions and rewards? It might help you stay focussed when there is a meltdown if you have all agreed what consequences are. I just found myself saying "I will be telling [insert Headmistresses name] about this!" which is just awful and desperate!

Also always worth a quick health check to put your mind at rest. Not for anything serious just that even a niggling pain or discomfort can make behaviour plummet.

I have a slightly younger one of these! very wearing. Also behaves well out of the home. Will mark place...meanwhile ?

Cheers!

I know it's a cliche to say middle children have to fight for attention, but I do think it's a difficult role.

Two things that might help - quality time alone with him. I know it will be a nightmare to organise, but if you and he can go see a film, go swimming, whatever, on your own at the weekend that might help with his attitude, and it may help you see him as less of a nightmare and more of an individual (I'm not having a go - I know how easy it is to just see the problem and lose sight of the child).

And persist with the ignoring. Pick your battles - you don't necessarily need to engage (unless someone is being hurt). Walk away, do whatever you were going to do, speak as little as possible. He needs to see that he gets attention when he's nice, and none when he's horrid.

The other thing is some sort of rewards - does he appreciate the value of money? Could pocket money be linked to good behaviour (something like 50p a week with 5p removed for every "crime") - or anything like Match Attacks? Bribery, basically - but it may be enough to break the pattern.

Have you heard of 1-2-3 Magic? Available on amazon, might be useful. Also How to Talk so children will listen...
In the meantime, keep being consistent, re-iterate behavioural rules, follow through on any sanctions, express love for him, etc. Keep him well hydrated, try to keep him from getting too tired- not saying these are the cause, but I find with my children it has an immediate effect on behaviour.
There are lots of books about dealing with worries, I'm guessing he wcan rite? He may find it helpful to have a 'worry box' that he can write down his worries and post them in for you to help with/discuss/him to figuratively discard whatever.
My eldest's behaviour goes off the wall with anxieties tbh, particularly fear of the unknown, though christmas and its build up can also be a trigger.

Unfortunately he doesn't respond to reward charts or time outs. We then discussed the idea of pocket money, £1 each week for them all but 5p added for exceptional behaviour and 5p deducted for bad behaviour. We stuck by it but he just doesn't care.

I do suspect some attention seeking. It's hard to get 1 to 1 time with 3 that age but we do factor some 1 to 1 time for them all. We have tried giving extra time to him but it didn't seem to have any effect on him. In fact, he's the one that comes in on a weekend and has an extra snuggle with mammy before she gets up. He knows he's loved and he's able to respond to it.

Did I mention stubbornness? He'd win awards for it.

And some nights he really does have us reaching for the

I have just got a parenting book so I'll have a read and see what that suggests. I like the idea of a worry box. You're also right about the Christmas build up.

My DS nearly 5 sounds very similar to your DS. I have recently realised that DH and I have inadvertently helped to escalate his behaviour by over reacting and focusing on the negative behaviour. We have been doing a reward chart with him with stickers for things such as getting dressed (nightmare), doing as he's told, good listening, good school reading, politeness and kindness etc. For every 5 stickers he gets reward of his choice; computer time (he has no computer apart from time that is earned), a film, 2 bedtime stories etc. it's important that rewards are achievable and immediate. DS has habit of banging both hands on his head when he is very angry; normally I will react and go over the top but this week when I ignored it I could see him out of the corner of my eye looking at me wondering why I hadn't reacted. Children will seek attention where they receive it most so if he gets more attention by behaving badly that's what he will do, especially as he has siblings to compete against.

Read How To Talk So Children Listen. (a mumsnet fave)

what it suggests is that you have to notice children being good. Even the smallest thing. For example when he screams at you asking to put his shoes on the book would suggest that you say
"That makes you feel fed up. You were enjoying that lego, a bit of time to yourself, having breakfast (delete as appropriate)

Now that all sounds a bit touchy feely, but apparently once you notice bad feelings (not approving them, just noticing them) you allow child opportunity to move forwards.

Rather than the other way round which is to give bribes, or warnings, or consequences.

Try it. It works. You need to read the book though.

It is the opposite of Supernanny approach which is to crack down on bad behaviour. It is the opposite of saying, That behaviour is naughty.

Not sure if its the same cause, but when DS was 7 he became really hard work, lots of answering back, mean to his DS... it was very wearing.
We felt it might be connected to computer games, so we took the decision to stop him having any computer ( Wii, DS, PC) time at all during the week... within a short space of time he was back to our normal little chap again... could be that we were just giving him boundaries... could have been a complete coincidence.. who knows!.. HTH

Do you give him any warning that changes are under foot?

Like "Peter, we are leaving in 5 minutes, so prepare to stop playing/reading etc" and then "come put your shoes on, we are leaving"

etc

I would quit the singulair definatelsfax it's ok with your DR. My DN was very similar in behaviour to your son on that medication.

oh dear got that slightly wrong, it is called How to Talk So Kids will Listen by Adele Faber.
It is not letting children get away with bad behaviour it is just changing to way you approach a problem. Also making instructions age appropriate.
Another example would be to say "I see shoes. I see feet. Shoes on feet" Instead of saying. We need to leave right now, could you please put your shoes on. She has a long section how saying" please" can infuriate children They prefer direct clear instructions.

Adele Faber or H Norman Wright for the book? There are 2 titles very similar.

We don't really allow much computer time and they know that the TV is out of bounds if there is any misbehaving.

Yes, I'd say we do give warnings. We explain we're going out and ask everyone to get ready. 5 minutes later he's not ready so we'd ask again... or we'd say we're about to have dinner, could you please take your lego off the table and put it upstairs. Prior to this I would say, dinner's nearly ready, can you think about tidying up and getting ready.

I don't think that cracking down on bad behaviour is the solution but focusing on good behaviour isn't working either. At the moment I think we're just both reacting because we're worn out by it all.

We also found reward charts absolutely useless. Unless there was an immediate reward, ie: put your clothes on then you can watch telly. And that was unsustainable for every little action. I think our children found them much too complicated and after a bit they became even angrier when they failed to do the right thing and didn't get a reward. Also there was a competitive element with three children that caused a lot of aggro when one child got a star and the other didn't. I think with a toddler they might work much better or with a very grownup child that could look ahead to a long term reward, but NOT with a tantrumming child.

Don't scream. Follow through calmly. He needs to know you are in charge. Guess I am the old school, clear boundaries, but also agree that 1 to 1 time would be really good for him. And perhaps checking how consistent you are with all 3. So easy to get into patterns and not notice dynamics- DS 6, touch wood, is very well behaved these days, but when he was about 4 I was losing the plot with his behaviour, so sometimes in order to remain calm I'd write down the occasions that things got bad to try to find a pattern, give me back some semblance of control.

I think you do need to try taking him off that drug- you won't know unless you do - is there a good alternative- is it very necessary? With DS I don't know whether it was a stage he got through- his behaviour improved a lot as he got towards 5, however we then discovered he needs quite strong glasses, and I still wonder if some of the dreadful behaviour at home (after fab days at nursery) was due in part to tiredness in part due to having to over focus his eyes on a daily basis.

I do think you get to the point with any child that you just think I CAN@T ALLOW THIS,and react in a angry way. You feel they are a completely out of control spoilt brat and no amount of books telling you to focus on good behaviour can help I know I frequently feel that way myself.

What the book does is focus on what talking to a child in a particular way will make the child feel, and how they will then react. It starts with empathy. What is it like being that child at that moment? Someone much larger and more powerful than you bossing you around in what might appear a very dictatorial way for no apparent reason that you the child can discern. But if you think that large and powerful person acknowledges in some way how you feel you might feel less frustrated or angry in your responses. It doesn't mean the table isn't going to be cleared or that you aren't going to put your shoes on, just that the adult who is asking you to do those things is on your side,not telling you off, or belittling you.

I would also stop using Time Out. I think it is too punitive and sets up a cycle of aggressive struggles. But that is just in my experience.

These things all depend on how you use them. Sometimes though, it is good to stop what you are doing if it is not working. Time out works very effectively for us, but we use it incredibly sparingly.

One of the other things I've noticed over the years is that it NEVER works when I ask the children to get ready. Just Like That. I had to engage in a concrete detailed way. Hand the coats over, talk as they put them on, help them clear the Lego [ie: here you put that in the box, I liked that green lazer bit, oh did you really make that stun gun, we'll have to be careful with that bit] THEN they got ready, because it felt good. Later they got ready because they had positive vibes about getting ready and tidying up.
6 is quite young. You probably won't realise that until you have a 10 or 12 year old who STILL can't seem to tidy up or get ready. Now is the time to work on cooperation and give them gentle prods, rather than expecting them to be so completely trained.

thanks, I've ordered the book; a new perspective is probably a good move. We're a bit stuck in a rut.

DS hasn't had any singulair since Monday and it has been relatively calm. Not sure whether it's a pre-christmas (tired with school concerts) or whether it really is making a difference. Time will tell on that and the Asthma nurse at our surgery is monitoring him closely.