Advanced toddler? Is this mad?

[ItsOkayItsJustMyBreath]

Have NCed for this as it feels a of a cringy thing to ask

Ds is 21 months and I am beginning to think that he may be showing signs of being advanced. By this I mean he knows the alphabet both names of the letters and their sounds, he can count to 12 and knows other numbers such as 20, 100, 150 but can only count objects up to 12 iyswim. He talks a lot and uses the correct verb tenses and has a very wide vocabulary. He is incredibly inquisitive, he genuinely wants to 'learn' and finds it interesting.
Today he 'sounded out/ read' his first word, "sky". It was unprompted and in the middle of the town centre.

My question is, is this normal development? Even if it is advanced it doesn't necessarily mean that he will always be advanced does it?

Sorry to be so pfb, my DM is getting very excited at the prospect of another genius in the family (the others being my DB and my biological father) and I'm not sure what to say to her as it is exciting but everyone thinks their child is brilliant don't they?

My eldest knew all his letters and numbers by two and was reading at 3, so a bit later than your DS, but early. He's 11 now and of course it doesn't show up as all the others have caught up now that teaching has moved from 'skill acquisition' to 'application of skills'. He still has a brilliant 'sponge up and reproduce' memory but struggles more with creative work. Watch his social understanding and skills. There is some link between precocious highly left-brained categorisation skills and high functioning autism (aspergers), and my DS is indeed on the spectrum. He's also fabulous :)

I think he is a bright child who has spent a lot of time with adults. My DS1 was similar-the younger 2 were not so advanced because they had each other to play with and didn't rely on adults quite as much. Just enjoy.

I don't know if your child will go on to be a genius but he is certainly advanced for his age. Hopefully you will get good balanced responses on here. There is a tendency on MN for people to accuse you of lying or stealth boasting. Not helpful at all. As another OP said, there isn't much you can do except watch and wait and give him opportunities and space to learn.

My DD was doing practically the same as your son but at 23 months, so two months later! She spelt/read out 'Exit' in the train station. She knew her colours and shapes as well, informing me whenever she saw an octagon and so on. I never said anything to anyone as I didn't know if this was the norm or not especially as they were all busy telling me how much of a genius their children were, and yes there was stuff their kids did which my DD was yet to do.

Besides, my DD doesn't perform on demand, nor does she talk to certain people.

So as time has gone by, I have begun to realise that she WAS advanced at that stage but I think it has started to level out now, plus I have recently had to deal with her Keyworker being convinced she is a slow developer because she doesn't know her colours, shapes or numbers! She does, she just bloody refuses to speak to Keyworker. If I told her DD knew them back before she was 2 I know she will disbelieve me. I KNOW my DD is not a late developer but is being pigeonholed and treated accordingly at her nursery.

There is also genius in her family tree. Her Great Grandad was a genius physicist known for his work in one particular area.

Bit of a tangent here but the Hyperlexia link was a revelation! I had no idea this is existed. I was a 'child prodigy' when it came to reading. I learnt to read very early and very quickly. It affected my schooling terribly. I was singled out in class and removed from reading lesson to be a 'free reader' - this was back in the 70s. I got a reputation for being exceptionally bright and gifted. I could read anything you put in front of me, but not necessarily understanding it all.

I remember my teacher at primary school saying she had no idea what to do with me when it came to spelling/writing and reading lessons as I just soared through them.

The truth is I'm not really but that was the label I had and I struggled to keep up with it. So I would be wary about labelling children when they are very young

I am, however, very backwards when it comes to numbers, have no idea about my left and right, and am very clumsy and have no real spatial awareness when it comes to my own body!

dd1 did all of this except the sounding out 'sky' at 18 months - I left dh with her for the weekend and he very proudly announced what they had been playing all weekend. Fraek.

Anyway, she is jolly bright (is almost 13 and has been consistently picked up as gifted in school, blah) but it is in more of a 'hard worker' way. She's actually middle kid in terms of iq in this house (all are 'gifted' to varying degrees. It ain't hot housing, I'm bone idle). It's actually dd2 who is by far and away the quickest mind, we didn't know she could read until she could talk (which I know sounds really dumb, but she has cp and wasn't expected to be verbal).

You don't actually have to 'do' anything. Just have fun, play games, and carry on with what you are doing. Most schools have a few kids that are competent readers when they turn up in yr r. It didn't bother ours.

Um, so I think it's lovely. But it isn't necessarily anything to panic about, really. It's well within the realms of normal. Over the next few years you can work out which sort of setting will suit him (or just send him to the nearest school like we did).

Wow, there are a lot of very advanced children on Mumsnet! I have worked in early years for several years and the number of 2 year olds I have come across who can count objects up to 12 or who know all the letter names and sounds is very small. I haven't met any readers under 3. Most 21 month olds are just starting to put two words together let alone speaking in sentences with the correct tense

My ds could do that and read and write and count with value past 20 by 2. I assumed he was bright but focused on not trying to create a genius and encouraged age appropriate interests. I had no other child to compare to but through work had met lots of other bright children whose patents encouraged /supported advanced learning in certain areas which seemed isolating to me. I saw many bright kids who knew lots of factual information about random topics sitting by themselves and am happy that my ds fits in with his peers and happens to be bright on the side.

I know this sounds like bragging, I am glad he doesn't struggle in the classroom but I have also found that kids who are motivated can achieve more than those with a natural ability who go with the flow so I realise that my ds may not actually achieve academically in the future.

I guess my point is to enjoy it but not get hung up on a label.

Sam, I don't think you would necessarily know, though.

It isn't something that is expected or looked for (and not encouraged) in any early years setting for 2yos that my lot have ever been in. It didn't come up in conversation with the nursery - they weren't looking for it, so they didn't recognise it, iykwim.

To be fair, ds1's nursery did recoil in horror when he started a new setting on his third birthday - that age group ran alongside the yr r kids as it was a foundation stage unit and they transferred to yr 1 on leaving. So they noticed straight away as ds1 was easily able to do the yr r stuff, and because he just got on and did it, they fished a bit and worked out what he did know. Sme of it surprised me, tbh. I had no idea he could work out multiplication and play shops, and give correct change, and work out different ways to add up to whatever the number was. But it was only because the staff were also dealing with yr r kids that he had that opportunity. The week before in his nursery setting as a 2yo, he was just another 2yo.

I didn't ever go into nursery and announce any of them could read. there are parents who have tried....

So, um, I think it's way more common than we give credit for, really. There's a huge variability in the early years.

He is obviously quite advanced and despite what people wish was the case, he will almost certainly continue to be quite advanced.

Children do have different aptitudes and abilities, people always play it down on here or go the other way and want to put their 2yo into some kind of genius camp.

It absolutely is something that is looked for and encouraged in early years setting madwoman, or at least it should be. A huge part of my role is observing children's abilities and interests, planning for them and extending them, and involving parents in that process. I suppose it is possible that I have come across many very advanced 2 year olds who have chosen never to for eg. get involved with counting activities or never verbalised their letter recognition, and whose parents have chosen to keep quiet about their abilities, but I think it's unlikely to have been widespread!

As an example, if I observed children using some number words (possibly randomly) during play (that is a typical level of development for a child of 21 months by the way) I might set up an activity that involved understanding quantities using up to 3 objects and using terms like "more" and "a lot" (this would typically be expected of a 2-3 year old). If a child was matching number and quantity correctly with up to 3 objects (something you might expect in a 3 year old) I would add more objects, count up to 10, remove and add objects etc (this is something you might expect from a child in a Reception class). If the OP's child is 21 months, and can count and use numbers in the same way a 4 year old might, then that is very advanced and very unusual.

This thread has obviously attracted comments from parents with children who worked 12-24 months ahead of their chronological age as toddler, but they are definitely exceptional rather than the norm!

Marzipanface, that's so strange that you are hyperlexic! I must say I was always 'into' reading and writing as a very young child, possibly why I became an English teacher. I wrote a 14 page story for my DM when she was in hospital and I was staying with GPs, at the age of 4. Looking back now, maybe I was advanced with reading/ writing/ spelling but it never meant anything else unfortunately. I was put up a year at school but only because the numbers were too big for our year .

This thread has been fascinating and it's good to hear about other toddlers doing the same as ds and how it may or may not mean anything. He's just my little boy to me and I'll encourage him but not push him and make sure he gets lots of social interaction too (not that that's a problem!).

Thank you for your advice.

I always wanted to be an English teacher, author or a journalist! I was published when I was eight but went on to do something entirely different in my adult life instead.

I don't know if I am hyperlexic to be honest but it did resonate with me when I read about the condition. Maybe you are the same? Maybe there is a link with your child?

Sam oh, how I wish you were teaching my dd! she is bright, but I very much doubt anyone at her nursery has even noticed.

That's great if you actually do, sam, rather than think that the specifically designed to be age appropriate activities are actually likely to tell you whether a child can go much further.

The same child (that the third setting noticed his abilities on his third birthday on arrival) wasn't recognised in yr r either initially (we moved house and so he started yr r in a different county). I went for my first parent's evening and they earnestly told me that he was very definitely gifted in literacy (that was kinda obvious) and doing ok average in maths. I just laughed. They were slightly bemused and asked what was funny, and I just asked them if they had ever asked him to do anything he couldn't do in maths.

Of course not. The curriculum is so absolutely set and no one deviates from it. The following week they took him aside and actually paid attention, and were a wee bit embarrassed. They sorted out out moving him up for maths. It was all fine - I wasn't upset, I just found it mildly amusing that they were being so earnest about his 'abilities' but didn't actually have a clue. If you tell a kid to count the objects on the table, they will. If you tell them to fill the jug half full, they will. If you told my kid that these three items cost x, y and z, and he had £3.40 in his pocket, what would the change be? He'd tell you. He wasn't likely to tell you how many different ways you could make 76p out of the coin jar unless you asked him.

I'm thrilled if your setting actually does know what abilities your kids have. In total mine have been in 7 nursery settings between them all over the country, and only the one has ever had a clue ((the foundation stage unit with trained teaching staff). The rest, even if you approach them to say x is reading, snort in derision, or do the wee head tilt and come up with some crap like 'we aren't allowed to teach the children as we aren't qualified teachers, so we can't do reading. They have to wait until school.'

I do get it, I mean, if you have five activities planned, and a set timetable, it's unlikely that KS 1 math is going to feature. Likewise reading. You might be drawing letters in the sand, and finding stuff in the toy box that begins with 'ssssss' but you aren't going to be asking who wants to read the quiet time story today. I think it's great if you do though (or even if you knew which kids could read the story/ whatever). You must have a waiting list a mile long! Most nurseries steer away as the staff aren't trained to do KS1 teaching, for obvious reasons (low paid poorly qualified staff with reasonably high turnover, and the fact that isn't their job. They aren't paid to do it.)

I still don't know about exceptional, tbh. having kids who do this stuff routinely does mess with your 'norms'. My kids are bright (with apologies to carol dweck, blah) but they aren't Einstein. So it makes sense to me that there must be loads of other kids who just grasp this stuff, and as nurseries and yr r teachers had no clue what my kids could do, I figure there must be a raft of other kids whose abilities aren't recognised either.

(The math kid has the lowest iq of mine. By some margin. The cleverest was statemented for school start because of her disabilities. )

(So don't even get me started on the amount of patronising that kid went through in the early years. Because cerebral palsy means you must have learning difficulties, right? And because she couldn't speak, no one knew she was reading c s Lewis at three. Least of all us! )

Very advanced yes, but not really a reflection of life long development, it may even out in line with peers through out school or may for ever excel.

I think it is a shame if nurseries do feel they have a set curriculum, or go into activities with a very set outcome in mind, and are unable to deviate from it depending on the interests and abilities of the children involved. In my experience this comes from poorly trained staff in nurseries who see the EYFS as a kind of tick list that children have to proceed through, so organise activities in order to elicit the "right" response.

All children entering my setting have a base line assessment completed with the parents, followed by a review at 6 weeks after staff have had a chance to get to know the child, so it should never take until the first parent's evening to learn that a child does x, y, z at home.

Most children are very keen to demonstrate their abilities if given the opportunity. Discussing the front cover of the story book, or the pages, recapping the story, asking children if they have read it before etc will provide an opportunity for children to tell you what they know, whether it is "the book is about a mouse" (from the picture), "it's a M like mummy" or sounding out the word "mice". Now, if I'd asked your son what the story was about and he'd read the title, I might well have asked him if he wanted to read any more.

Child development is very fickle and children can be advanced in some areas, but behind in others. There is no point in having a three year old who can read, if they do not how to share and make friends. I feel that labelling a child as gifted at such a young age is curse.

Dd speech was very advanced as a baby, but now lots of children have caught up and even overtaken her. Dd was extremely small as a toddler. At 16 months old she still fitted 3 to 6 month clothes. We had an incident where she bumped her head nastily and we had to take her to A and E. The doctor was quite shocked to meet a child who was so tiny yet could speak in complete sentences. Alas DD's development has plateued; she is more interested in Peppa Pig than curing cancer or creating world peace.

i had a bright toddler. very articulate, knew colours, shapes, she was able to count, add, subtract (a bit) and knew letters sounds etc.. (no one noticed in nursery) she is now 6 and by no means gifted. She is still bright and works hard and could probably do more if the school pushed her a bit more (in wales and i don't think the foundation phase till year 3 suits all) I think in her case she just was an early developer rather than gifted.

I could read by the age of 2 - the first books I read were Matilda and The Witches. I was very bright but never had to work to achieve anything and was never pushed so I became very lazy - still am! I've been moderately successful (doctor) but now I look back and wonder how good I could have been! Even now I struggle with things like revision because I can't focus for longer than 3mins.

My DS is 16 months and showing signs of being fairly bright. I want to develop a work ethic in him though, I think that is very important so that he can achieve his full potential.

Oops I meant 30 mins, my concentration span isn't that bad!

I do think that being advanced as a small child is a sign of intelligence, not of achievement as an Adult, in any way shape or form. Obviously lots of other skills are required to become successful. But a sign of basic logical intelligence or potential to learn new skills, absolutely.

I'm not saying that children who develop in a slower fashion are doomed to always perform below average mind, obviously development goes in fits and starts.

The plodders from my year seem to all be employed in civil service type roles, or admin or plumbers etc. Decent careers.

I was always top of the year and I'm a complete fuck up, so there you go.