What can your 2-year-olds do?

[emkaren]

Another recent thread has made me wonder about my daughter's development - she's two years 7 months and absolutely wonderful, and I am in no way concerned that she may be 'behind', but I'm nevertheless curious what other children her age can do! So - tell me (if you want to!):
What can your children draw? (dd only scribbles) Have your children any knowledge of letters? (dd isn't interested)
Can your children count? (dd can count to ten, sort of)
Do they know colours? (yes, though she often confuses green/yellow, blue/black)
What can yours do particularly well? (dd can sing very well and remembers all the lyrics and movements to loads of songs and nursery rhymes. Also, she grows up bilingually, and is getting better and better at expressing herself in both German and English)
Thanks for your answers!

message withdrawn

My ds is 2years 3 months and I often wonder the same thing. He scribbles, can count to 10 quite well and sometimes gets his colours right. He's quite good at recognising makes of cars but that's because he loves cars and I point them out to him. He speech is quite good too - he can string a sentence together now and can have quite a good conversation on the phone. They are all so different though and change constantly that it's hard to keep track of how they improve at things! Fascinating though (most of the time!).

ooh no no no this is why I haven't taken ds2 (2 on the 17th) anywhere near groups of other children of the same age since the day he was born

emkaren

She sounds absolutely delightful and nothing to worry about at all. V impressed with the singing and lyric remembering

We are a bi-lingual family and I know that getting to grips with that puts their language skills behind the average child by about 3 months (but IMO that is no big deal) so you should start a new thread - 'Check out my kid who can speak two languages'.

emkaren - when I read your thread, my first thought was 'now I can boast about my darling ds!'. However, like most of the other replies, my second thought was 'comparing just isn't good'. For example, I could worry you to death with some of the things ds can do, or worry myself with the things he can't do! I really have come to the conclusion that they are themselves. Ds' talking is a real case in point - he was really slow to get going, and I was starting to get worried becuase his contemporaries seemed so much more conversational. But ds is doing really well now, and he was just a late talker. The child who really worried me was a really late walker, whereas ds was an early walker.

Your daughter sounds like she's doing lots of good things. I'm sure that with things like letters, the thing to do is teach them when they are interested, and not try and do any when they're not. Ds has phases of being really into letters, and we'll learn some more, and then weeks of no interest.

What a great gift you are giving her in being bilingual!

I just want to point out (after reading the 'colours and shapes' thread) that I am ABSOLUTELY NOT AT ALL a competitive mum - in fact, the reason I started this thread was the fact that, as a German in England with different experiences, I am often, especially when reading on Mumsnet, astounded how literacy and numeracy are valued so highly in this country at such an early age. I could not read or write AT ALL until I was six and a half, as I didn't start school until then, but I still turned out all right - and my friends were the same. When I was doing teacher training in this country a few years ago I spent a day with a reception class. When I questioned the formal learning that was done at such an early age, the teacher looked at me with dismay and said ' what would YOU have the children do? Play all day?' My answer was yes! So, I started this thread because I wanted to find out if the impression I had gained so far, that children's literacy and numeracy etc. is pushed VERY VERY early in this country is true, or not. Sorry if I came across as pushy mummy from hell!

emkaren - didn't mean to make you feel like pushy mum - your message didn't read at all like that! I think these threads can sometimes escalate into 'well my child of 6 months is only reading Shakespeare sonnets, do you think he can ever graduate to reading whole plays?' etc. And I think people can feel inadequate if their children are beind in an area.

Didn't mean to criticise you though!

no no emkaren you didn't honest My reasons for avoiding comparison were to do with ds1 (autistic). In fact he could do a lot of the "pushy" things like count, read, colours etc but at 4 and a half he still can't talk, and it was fairly awful for a while being round others of the same age (i was in quite a competitve group at the time). When ds2 was born I really did avoid children the same age as him until I was absolutely 100% certian he wasn't autistic just because otherwise I would start comparing him. I did accidentally spend a day with another child exactly the same age as him when he was 11 months and that child was....pointing.... which was the thing I was waiting for (usually starts around 12 months) so I had a week panicking that he may be autistic (he started at 12 months and 1 week). So then I avoided all comparisons again for the next few monts until I knew he was NT.

I didn't think you were pushy- in fact I know that from your other posts- it was just a reflection on me Germany is far more sensible. The closest we have here is Steiner schools.

oh god typo I mean I know you're NOT pushy from your other posts.

Emkaren, I wish British schools were as enlightened as you seem to be. I agree that five year olds don't need anything but play. But that's another heated debate
My friend's two and a half year old was drawing away a few months ago, and my friend asked what it was 'Squirrel' says my friend's dd. "ooh, lovely' says my friend. "It's a beautiful squirrel. Clever girl. I can see his tail, can't I?" Friend's dd looks at her mother witheringly, "Not squirrel, mummy, SCRIBBLE" Well, it made me laugh.

I don't think you're pushy

I find it fascinating what different childrn can do at various stages. Not for competetive reasons, but just because I think it's interesting. Especially seeing that my own 2 children are so similar in some areas and so completely different in others (is it a gender thing???).

My dd is 2.8, she draws mostly scribbles, but can do some excellent circles too. She pretends to be interested in letters (as she likes the idea of being able to read like her big brother) but really isn't that interested - or probably more acurately doesn't have the attention span to learn them. (Ds at this age knew his alphabet inside out and could recognise letters). She can count to 10 (ds was counting to 100, and recognising numbers). She doesn't really know her colours.

She has a fantastic vocabulary and can express herself really well (within the family - she is very, very shy), and she also sings well, like yours and remembers lyrics.

I believe she is just as bright as her brother, but she just isn't interested in the same things he was. I just find it fascinating.

I am really impressed by your raising your dd bilingually. I would love to be able to do it with mine. She does get a little exposure as I am HEing ds (and her too, in time) and we do a little french, but mine is very rusty, so not much use!

Oh, and I completely agree with you about the uk being too concerned about learning at too young an age. My ds went to one session at playgroup aged 3 and they had them sat round tables filling in worksheets and doing curriculum based activities (b**y ofsted...). He never went back. They should be playing at that age. This is one of the (many) reasons I chose to HE.

I never talk about stuff like this on mumsnet, but yes stupidgirl (the name doesn't suit) They should be playing, i never push my kids to do anything ever. I tell them off if they do something dangerous and everything else can come naturally

Could it be me stirring it up on the colours and shapes thread, oh well I am getting fed up of it all! I am perhaps over-anxious but I make no apologies for that.

I am a SAHM and I let my two play all day! I find it much more constructive for them to learn to play together (sometimes it works sometimes it turns into WW3) than for me to be pushing them to do things they are not ready for. I give them their crayons and pads and leave them to it, not ignoring them but not constantly harping on about colours and "what is that you are drawing?" We have Megablocks cities constructed every day but it is more fun to destroy their buildings at the moment and I love that they laugh and have fun.

Maybe they won't be considered super-advanced clever-clogs, I want them to look back at their childhood as a time of fun and being allowed to be a child.

To answer your query, they sing rather than talk properly and developed their own twin-talk which is what has been causing me the most worries when I hear all this "mine is doing this/that." Balamory is a great favourite as it is in their accent(something I didn't have growing up with all English accents on TV.) It must be the easiest word to say. We visited Germany just before Christmas and they did learn "Danke" and they would say "tschuss." I loved the attitude the people had to the twins and for once didn't feel I was annoying anyone by our presence. And the fuss made over them, people here are so terrified of touching a child or speaking to it.

Ah, rant over. God,at this rate I'll get banned!

Maybe I should carry a warning sign at the moment!

Paula I do know how you feel honestly

Can I recommend the book BabyTalk by Sally Ward. There's quite a bit in there about twin speech development. As long as they are pointing at things, especially sharing things that interest them with you and able to communicate using methods other than speech I really don't think you have anything to worry about. Speech is the least important part of the whole development of communication.

message withdrawn

My children knew most colours, could count 1-2-3 in a very rote, copying way, sort-of draw a cross or circle, at about 2y+7 months. Nothing else you listed. My kids don't have learning disorders, or anything; they seem pretty normal compared to other children we know.

Well, I have to say that I don't 'push' my ds either. Children do learn things constantly without being taught them IME. However, Paula71 I am intrigued by your other comments. I don't feel that ds annoys anyone by his presence wherever I go and I certainly get lots of postive feedback about him. He gets spoken to all the time in cafes and in the street and this is in darkest SE London. Yesterday we had a long chat with the local dog walker on the way home from nursery and patted the dogs. And lots of people in the bank talked to him (he told the cashier he was going to fly home like Peter Pan ) and in the corner shop they gave him a sweet and knows him by name. I can't believe my experience is so unusual - or is it?

it's so tricky not to compare children, I find - quite a few of our friends have children a similar age to ds (just turned 2) and it's inevitable you're going to worry/be proud of what they can all do. Mind you, having said that, I'm starting to worry a lot less about it all - our ds has lots of words but only me and dp can understand him, and he's nowhere near talking in proper sentences - but I think that's partly because we understand him so well - he only has to say 1 - 2 words and we've worked out and said the whole sentence for him! I used to worry that he's behind compared to other 2 year olds in terms of talking 'properly' - but sod it - he's happy and can communicate everything he wants to us, so that's fine by me!

I don't push my dd age 3 at all. In fact I sometimes feel a bit guilty about this.
My first child who is now 11, I used to do loads with.
I had the flash cards, and loads of educational stuff that I would sit and do with him.
Granted he was a lot more interested in letters and numbers than dd but is this because I introduced it a lot more? I don't know, but with dd I am a LOT more relaxed, I read to her of course but I don't sit and do letter work or number work, I figure she has enough of this in nursery all day.
A friend of mine has a dd the same age(her first) And she tells me she sits with her dd every night sometimes for a couple of hrs teaching her letters and encouraging her to write.
This has worried me slightly and made me question myself, as my dd is probably watching cbeebies for those 2 hrs her dd is working as such.
(in between playing of course)
My ds has always been top of the class, is this because I done so much with him. Is my dd destinded to be the class dunce whilst my friends child gets 5 a levels?
I think threads like this are great because it can be reassuring to see iam not the only one worrying.

It is worrying and I think I've posted before about it. My second dd is nearly two years and two months. But hardly says anything intelligible. she calls everyone daddy (ironic as he left), but apart from that it's no, thanks, please, dog, duck and maybe a few more words, but mostly a lot of gibberish where she's trying to make sentences but it really is impossible to understand. One of my friends says it's as if she's speaking a foreign language. I am/have been worried and talked to the HV who said to wait another six months and then she could be referred in necessary. On the plus side she seems well co-ordinated and is a fairly happy little girl in most environments. But doesn't take to very many people and can be extremely unfriendly to a lot of people. I do worry but am aware that others have far more to worry about. As for counting to ten and colours not in a million years.

Oh Emkaren you must think I'm the mother from hell! Honestly, I'm not a pushy parent and neither is DH. I love the fact that DD has been interested in letters, words etc. from very early as i am that way too. I think if we're honest, it's nicer to be able to get shared enjoyment from activities, so for me anything remotely arty is a big turn-off (and has been since i was about 4) but letters, numbers etc. are fantastically interesting.

I did reply on the other thread about reading to explain we are both Psychologists so we probably do tend to look at things in a slightly odd way. A recent conversation went:

Me: She's definitely got number value up to 5 now.
DH: Still not as good as a pidgeon

So far I have managed to avoid him using DD as a bizarre case-study.

On an offshoot whilst I understand people's concerns about pushing kids into formalised education too early, lots of kids thrive and love that envt. I have to say that I would have gone mad if i hadn't been encouraged to read and write early, by 6 I used to write stories that filled exercise books, in the same way other kids might colour for hours on end or build lego (both activities from hell for me!)

Aloha LOL and LOL again re Scribble/squirrel.

I don't think we could compare our children even if we wanted to. DS is 2.11 but his abilities are totally different than when he was 2.3 or 2.7 because he has advanced amazingly as two year olds tend to. I know what his strong points are and what he struggles with and what developments he has been making recently.

I can understand emkaren's original post because I think DS's development is absolutely fascinating and would love someone to pay me to do a project on it!