Please help, this situation sometimes drives me crazy!

[bosphorus]

I have an eight year old son and a five year old daughter. I take them to school three times a week. My son is always very impatient to go to school and he is ready to get out of the the door way before his school gate opens and the school is not far away at all. My daughter on the other hand is very slow and takes her time - basically she is not that keen on being on time and obviously her comprehension is different at this stage. Almost every time we get into a situation where my son puts his shoes on before we are ready and he starts huffing and puffing that his sister is going to making him late. It all kicks off from there. She starts shouting and screaming at him, he starts shouting as well and they physically fight sometimes as well. There have been times when I lost it and shouted very loudly as well. It's just getting very tedious sometimes especially if I have had not enough sleep myself or when I am ill. I do not advocate the classical parenting approach the way in which I have been raised therefore I really do not think banning things or threats to restrict the things they enjoy doing helps in the long run. Generally I try to use descriptive phrase etc. but regarding this issue I feel like I am stuck and every time it kicks off in the same way I feel a bit helpless as it has turned mornings into a nightmare. We have a neighbour across the road with three kids of similar ages to mine who go to school at the same time and I have not heard them arguing a single time! I do not know great deal about them a part from the fact that they are Christians and we have no religion but I do not know whether it plays any part in it. I would really appreciate any suggestions you think I should try in this situation.
Thanks and good luck with yours!

Having a child who is very uptight about being late is very wearing. Luckily DD didn't acquire this malaise until the last 6 months. If she had her way, she'd be 20 minutes early to everything.

Could you try a different tack then? If you feel he is trying to wind you up, can you withdraw from the situation? To go and help your daughter dress or to do something else in the house? Also could you sit down with him separately and perhaps explain that it's brilliant that he can do it by himself and quickly, and as a result he has extra time to do something nice - maybe 5 mins extra telly, 5 mins on a games console (if you have them), reading an extra chapter of his book. I suspect that positive rewards in the extra time he creates for himself might work better for your ds - he needs to fill the time rather than feel anxious about it.

Also given that he's 8 and school is three minutes away, why can't he go ahead by himself anyway? It's a perfect age to start introducing him to walking by himself if the route is basically safe and he knows it well. You could check he was in the playground when you get their with dd anyway.

lljkk, the school is very close so we walk...Unfortunately once he is in a huff it's impossible to communicate with him as he goes on on about being late and I use the ability to talk to him in a calm way anyway! Thanks about the Unconditional Parenting thread, I didn't know and will try it! Good luck

MissWooWoo: They don't really play in the mornings and he goes into the building straight away! He doesn't exactly say why but I think he is just worried about being late, I spoke to his teacher to have a few words with him about him but I do not think she bothered! On the other hand my daughter sometimes plays with her friends but a lot of the time she just stands around me...

Their mum takes them on the other two days and it's more or less the same...

Thanks for all of your contributions!

I think parenting is the most difficult thing on earth!

Thanks, that might be a good idea to start a habit where he can maybe go on his computer - I think out of all available options this might be the only thing i can see that might work!

My wife says that they have to be 9 years old to be out on the street on their own - I think that would solve the whole problem all together to be honest but according to my wife we have to wait until he is 9!

Why don't you just get the 8 year old up a little bit later or the 5 year old up earlier?

There is no law or fixed rule about age for being out on their own. I think most people are capable of using their own common sense about their child & their local environment to figure out what is reasonable for them. From what you're saying I'd probably let him go on his own,just check he arrived when I got there, but it's not my child/environment.

To solve this problem I would set a time that you leave each day. A time that wont have DS too stressed about being late and wont have DD rushing for nothing.

You pick a time, tell them both this is the time you will leave every day. Tell DS that you do not want to hear any whinging, moaning or nagging before that time - tell him it that he is old enough to understand compromise and it's time to start applying it to his life. Tell DD that it is important to be on time and to allow a bit of extra time to get organised at the other end and not to be running in as the bell goes. Keep reminding her of that. She's 5, she wont really give a toss, but it's an important thing to instill anyway. She is only 5, it is up to you (or your Mum) to make sure she is ready at the assigned time.

Is your DS this stressy about other things too?

As for your overall parenting - it doesn't seem like you really want advice, but I will say one thing. Don't keep 'trying' this and that. Pick one way of dealing with unsuitable behaviour and stick to it for a long time (at least 6 months) then decide if it's working or not. Children need boundaries and discipline.

Your wife is talking rubbish! They do not have to be any particular age to be out on their own. They need to be safe, adaptable, mature, sensible and trustworthy, but age per se has little to do with it. Most infant/junior schools are happy for KS2 children to walk to & from school themselves as long as school is informed and in most cases a permission slip signed. I'd really try and discuss with her and your son, the possibility of him going ahead by himself, and also try and get to the bottom of his anxiety about being late.

ChippingInLovesAutumn, yes she is a bit stressed and wife thinks that it is possibly because she had to got to the nursery from when she was 18 months old..Yeah, consistency is important, thank you.

sparkle12mar08, I have never looked into it myself but I will investigate and possibly opt this way as it might really help!

i am sorry i haven't read all of the posts, but have a few ideas, i do agree that children need to know there are consequences to their actions, and also you should only ever say things you mean or will do agree( don't make empty threats)
so onto my ideas, sounds like your ds is doing what is needed in getting ready and on time, can you try to reward this behaviour, treats for this e.g a week of on time can equal a treat at the weekend, trip to the park etc? same rules for your ddi, hopefully incentivising good behaviour?

might also be worth considering a little something to do by front door for your ds once he is ready, pack of cards, sorting mini lego figures etc so he isn't just waiting for his dsis, and getting angry.

lastly i would at a quiet time sitting down with them both no tv etc write a morning routine with times, then you become official timekeeper, so you will be saying very positively its 7.30, down for breakfast i. two minutes, or is everyone dressed we need to be readym in 5 inutes, then do a count down with every minute until 1, then every 10 seconds until last 10, then a 10 to 1 count down. this sounds a bit intensive but actually won't take very long, and hopefully will speed up your morning? hope these ideas might help?d

If you want avoid punishment then you need to prevent your ds from instigating this situation. Give them both an alarm clock and set it for the time you need to get shoes on and go. Tell your ds that you set the rules and not him, explain that the situation is becoming difficult and causing everyone stress therefore he must not be ready before the alarm goes off ask him to sit and read a book if he is ready early and and he does not put his shoes on and taint his sister.

Give your dd an alarm clock as well and tell her about the importance of being reliable and on time as it causes other people upset if people are late and inconsiderate of others needs. Set the alarm and tell her she must put her shoes on and get out the door straight away.

Give this a week and see how it goes, if it fails then get them to write a letter to each other to you explaining how they have behaved and how it has upset the other child, this way they can consider how there behaviour impacts on each other and they may self regulate better. Also it will soon become tedious for them and they may stop in future if they need to take time out once they get home from school to write letters rather that the things they want to be doing.

Thanks for the overwhelming response and sharing your advice, thoughts and experiences! I am going top consider this all and hopefully report back on progress. I just wish that I have more time to contribute and carry on with the discussion but I must go back to work! I am going to print this out and highlight some bits!

Once again thanks and good luck with your journeys too!

I second letting the DS take himself to school. Not really early so he's hanging about on his own, but so he knows, at the point your DD is putting her shoes on, he can go. My DS started taking himself when he turned 8 and we live very near to our school too.

Do report back won't you?

can he tell the time?
give him a watch and get him to time how long it takes to get to school going at a normal pace, then time it going fast.

Once he knows what it feels like to be on time.... he might relax about being late.

My dcs were very close together in age and enjoyed winding each other up at times. Being an only child myself, it took me a while to realise that this was relatively normal, not evidence that they hated each other. Being very different children, they too played on those differences.

I was not keen on punishment, per se (and certainly not in a Victorian understanding of the word) but equally, you can't allow unacceptable behaviour to go unchallenged. So I tended to stress that all actions have consequences. Which could, of course, be positive. Because it is just as important to reward good behaviour and certainly better all round than constant shouting or dishing out punishments that are over the top or just plain ineffective. It was necessary, however, for the consequences to be less favourable if the dcs weren't prepared to be co-operative.

It sounds, OP as if your dd needs to be encouraged to get ready more quickly because actually, I can see how irritating it would be to watch a sibling wander around slowly without a care. At 5, she's quite old enough to understand why you need to leave on time. Equally, your ds needs to understand that getting impatient and having a shouting match isn't going to speed things up and he's old enough to learn some tolerance.

Do you have any sort of reward system in place?

Hi Bosporus
For some great ideas that don't involve punishment
check out www.handinhandparenting.org
They have lots of articles about fighting and sibling issues. You are right not to use punishment , studies show it actually makes behavior worse!

Hi Pandemoniaa, thanks for sharing. There are rewards in place but not consistently...

Thanks for sharing paranoid2android

So DS is the one in the wrong for wanting to be early for school? Encourage dd to speed up. It's rare for kids to want to go to school. Don't discourage him. Sit them down and tell them that tomorrow morning is going to be different. Tell them how YOU want the start if the day to go. Your in charge remember.