Feeling like a warden....

[uncertain]

Does anyone else get the feeling that they are constantly on their children's backs?! I hate feeling like a nag or a cranky old woman but my son (3 1/2) really gets me going when he ignores me, does the opposite of what I tell him, doesn't come when I call him, etc etc, the list goes on. The problem is, sometimes I don't know where to drawn the line with my reaction to his behaviour... what I mean is, I know I have to be consistent if I want him to do what he's told, but sometimes I wonder if I should let some of the behaviour go, instead of always insisting that he does the right thing. For instance, occasionally I wonder if I'm chastising him for something that perhaps he doesn't really understand, & then I worry that I might be being too hard on him. I think sometimes I tend to react more angrily if I'm fed up at the end of the day or if I'm tired, & hence may overreact about some of the things he does. But I've noticed before that if I let certain behaviours go, then he just assumes that he can get away with not listening to me and starts doing what he wants. For some reason I find it so hard to strike a balance - I don't want to be a nagging, negative parent, but I want him to be a well behaved child who is capable of doing what he's told. I do try to explain things to him as much as possible, but I find that sometimes he is more willing to listen than others and that trying to reason with him doesn't always have a lot of effect - depends on his mood. I also try to 'pick my battles', but sometimes I just find negative behaviour in general hard to deal with. Does anyone else have similar feelings to this?

OH MY GOD ....Similar feelings?.........absolutley!

I started a thread recently titled 'where have I gone wrong with him' about our DS1 and you sound sooooooooo like me and our situation, it quite wierd.

We have good days which are great and bad days which I just seem to battle through. I'm pleased to say though, that the good days are getting much more frequent than the bad days, even during the Xmas holidays when all DS1+2 have done all day(almost every day) is wind each other up. DS1 has started to realise that if he leaves DS2 along the screaming/fighting/shouting etc etc between them stops and so neither of them get told off.

Not much help I'm afraid but at least you know you're not the only one..........not by a long shot!

uncertain, going on my experiences with my two, now 4 and 9, 3 is a difficult age. Not that any age is easy!

However when they are so very young, yet so very mobile and inquisitive, it seems so wearying to tell them again and again not to do something. And IME although 3 years is about the age when you can start reasoning with them, there is a big element of luck if they respond to this method. Depends on the occasion.

If you feel you sound like a cracked record saying 'no' all the time, you could try this:
either finish any negative request on a postive ie - 'don't throw those lego bricks - build me a the biggest tower you can'. So not just a don't but also a do IFSWIM. Or 'no we can't go to the park becasue it's too wet but when the rain stops we will - what shall we take with us?'

Or otherwise, turn a telling off into a distraction as well, as in 'don't touch that cake again, come with me to find a knife and you can help me cut it'

That's what I did and still do sometimes with my two. It always stops feeling like a nag, and sometimes (though not failsafe by any means ) is really effective in getting them to change course.

I think it really helps to take a step back and think, what's the problem with letting him do what he wants? My son doesn't come when I call him either, but I can't say it bothers me. He doesn't run into the road, which is the only thing that would really concern me. Children that young do have limited understanding of commands and Jimjams has given excellent advice on other threads about how to simplify your language so that children genuinely understand what you want them to do. Very often what seems like disobedience ( a word that I personally hate) is actually a lack of comprehension of what is required of them. I do, personally, think you are expecting too much. We are all individuals and have to be allowed our freedom IMO. And my son is a really lovely little boy I think. He doesn't hit, rampage or do any of the things that children are thought to do if they aren't sternly disciplined. If he's doing something I don't want him to do, then I distract him and offer alternatives. At the moment he's obsessed with the story machine on Story Makers, and loves putting bits of paper and toys behind the sofa while saying 'imagine, imagine' - if I got determined to stop him I would have confrontation and misery all round. So I let him do it with anything that isn't breakable and just clear out the back of the sofa from time to time. I am not a huge fan of reasoning with tiny children. I think keeping explanations brief seems to work better. They tend to tune out otherwise. I do recommend the book The Social Toddler as a good way of dealing with young children in a positive and happy way. I'm also a big fan of a book (probably out of print now) called Nanny Knows Best, based on a newspaper column written by a woman who was a nanny from the 1930s until the 80s. You'd expect her to be really hot on discipline, but she's exactly the opposite, and believes in letting children do pretty much anything they want, provided it isn't violent. I personally found it a really refreshing view of child raising.

BTW, I do know what you mean, if I have PMT or am feeling tired or cranky, I sometimes get it into my head that my son 'should' do X or Y and it's always miserable for both of us. I now regard this as my failing, not his, and try very hard to avoid getting into those moods.

Aloha, I just feel that what you're saying is easier said than done a lot of the time. Fine, I can distract him or not react to what he's doing (which I do a lot of the time), but there are certain situations that drive me to distraction - like when we have to go out somewhere, and even though he knows this, he won't cooperate with me. What I mean is that I tell him where we're going (I give him lots of notice), get him dressed, put his shoes on, and then it takes him 10 minutes to get into the car - meanwhile I'm running late, simply because he won't get into the car when I'm asking him to. (This is just an example BTW). He purposely dawdles around and walks off in the other direction just at that moment when I ask him to come here and get in the car - and I KNOW he understands what I want him to do, because of how well he is able to communicate with me. He just looks me in the eye and carries on doing what he wants to do. Things like this really push me, especially when I have to be somewhere by a certain time. I just feel that if you allow them to do whatever they want, they are going to become very used to getting their own way and will not respond well to being told "no", which (IMO) is then going to create further problems.

My ds - in general - is also a good little boy who plays extremely well with other kids, is not at all aggressive and has never hit or bitten other children. He can, however, be very wilfull when he wants something and is more than capable of throwing a wobbly if he doesn't get it. If I don't teach him what behaviour is acceptable and what is unacceptable, how else is he going to know? Maybe I am expecting too much of him at times, but like I said, my aim is simply to be a good parent and I don't want to be either too lenient or too much of a disciplinarian. I wish I had the wisdom to know the correct way to treat every situation, but unfortunately it's not that easy.

I'm having similar difficulties with my ds, also 3. The backing-off really does help, but the thing is that you have to do it before the problem arises, so that you're prepared. I try to decide what does and doesn't matter, and to 'bite my tongue' when a doesn't-matter situation arises, also to recognise that sort of situation developing so thta I don't give an instruction that I know is going to be ignored. I try to use 'no' and 'don't' as little as possible (eg 'Stay where you can see me' instead of 'Don't go too far' and Tigermoth's way is excellent, too. And for something like the getting into the car situation, I'll say something like 'Do you want mummy to post you into your seat, or will you climb in by yourself?' and if he dawdles or I'm near the end of my tether, I'll say 'Either you get in now, or I put you in myself' not crossly, but meaning it. He knows I'll do it!

Childredn respond well to clearly defined boundaries, but they test them. If I let the boundaries spread too far, or blur, then things get tougher.

I think the getting children ready to go out scenario is often a flash point situation. I still haven't got it totally cracked with my two. Arguments, shouting, me feeling like I am not only a bad but also mad mother.

I now accept that this is never going to be easy and my children will never respond like clockwork and that makes me feel better somehow. I blame the situation, not the children or me. The not getting into car seat thing was a phase my two both went through at 3 years old. Now the 4 year old is fine about it. So keep your hopes up!

The best way IME of getting my two out of the house and into a car is to count down (or up) as in 'I want you sitting in your car seat by the time I count to 10' then start counting. As long as your 3 year old can count, this deadline game can really impel them into action. And I agree with prettycandles, you need to have some boundaries even when you pick your battles carefully.

Getting out of the house on time was something I agonised over when I was expecting dd, because it never particularly mattered when it was just ds and me. If the sparkly raindrops on the window were interesting, then so what if we were late to playgroup! But I knew that once the baby was born we just wouldn't have the chance to take our time and explore whatever we wanted to. Now ds goes to nursery 3 mornings, and I don't want us to be too late too often, or I know that to fit in a shopping trip between naps and feeds takes military planning, so leaving the house can really get fraut. How long can it take between 'Time to get ready to leave' and actually starting the car engine? 20 minutes? 40 minutes? God knows! And similarly when we get back home, and there are all those coats and shoes to take off, bags to put away, etc etc.

I keep getting caught up by thinking that if ds can do something himself then he should always do it himself. I have to back off and remember that he's just a little boy, and even though he needs the chance to learn and practice, he also needs to be a child. Things suddenly got a lot better when I reverted to just dressing or undressing him, instead of telling him to put on/take off his coat and shoes and then getting cross because he didn't. Things were calmer. And eventually he started wanting to do things for himself, so I let him, but I continue to do them for him as well, so that he has a choice.

And I also think that, because his language skills have always been incredibly advanced, I expect too much of him, especially when it comes to 'reasonable' behaviour. Why should he be reasonable at 3, when sometimes I'm unreasonable at thirtysomething? It's just that I know the difference, which he has yet to learn.

Uncertain, it's really that little children have no concept of time at all. They really don't. Just because they talk well doesn't mean they understand abstract concepts or really have any idea of how their behaviour will affect others. That's pretty sophisticated thinking. If my ds is dreamily wandering around I just pick him up (after saying what I am going to do) and put him in the car when I'm ready to go. I personally think making it a battle is just so miserable that I don't go there. Dawdling and being distracted is just how toddlers are - they don't do it to annoy. They are impulsive because their brains are still developing and the impulse control bit comes last. Shouting is simply counterproductive IME. It just upsets ds and winds me up so we both lose. And I also don't personally believe it teaches him anything. People always assume my ds is a monster when I post things like this, but I can assure you he isn't. And I am a hell of a lot happier when I don't let myself get cross with him. We have such a happy time together. And I'm actually quite a fiery person who is capable of losing my temper big time.

I'm not attacking you, honestly I'm not. It's just that for me I know the difference between when I get het up and when I don't, and I know both our lives are much better when I don't. I don't spoil him materially and he has regular bedtimes etc, but I try to let him live his life freely as much as possible.

your ds sounds like my ds2. Really the best way is to redirect and tell them what you want. OR tot trick them. For example this morning I had to get ds2 dressed (he's 2 in about 10 days) in orderto take ds1 to school, ds2 ran off in the other direction (he always does this), and stood in the kitchen laughing. I said "ooh do you want to wear bob the builder on your tummy" and waved his vest at him and then he came running. He always runs away whenever we're about to go out as well, so normally I give a cheery wave and a bye bye and he comes running again. With him it is a constant case of getting him to do things without directly asking. If I tell him to do something directly he won't, unless he thinks it's a game.

I agree with aloha about battles, if we seem to be getting drawn into one then I sidestep ds2 and use my experience to be cleverer than him

I have head on battles with ds1 sometimes and they always leave me feeling miserable so I try to avoid them with him as well. Luckily he tends to want to please so he's not naughty on purpose iyswim.

Oh what great timing this thread is! I'm sitting at work feeling like a total failure as a mother, having spent my day off work yesterday in an almost constant battle with my nearly three year old twin DDs.

I agree with Aloha that battling with them and trying to insist on things isn't the way forward and I keep trying to remind myself this when they are both "playing up", but it is sooo difficult. Particularly yesterday when I was tired and premenstrual! I just feel that at this age they should be able to respond to a request occasionally without "why", "no", "what for", "in a minute", "I'm busy mummy", coming into it!

The posts about getting into the car made me smile - I have huge problems getting them out the house and in the car without losing it at the moment. One will be dressed and ready to go, I'll turn round from doing the other one and her sister will have taken everything off again! When we finally get out the front door, one will leg it up the drive while I'm trying to manhandle her sister into her seat. By the time I actually reverse out the drive I'm sweating like a pig and cursing under my breath, it's almost not worth the bother!

Anyway, it's helped to hear that three year olds are often like this! And I feel better having "spoken" to MN! Another day off tomorrow and it will be much better than yesterday!!!

Oh, hallelujah, I'm not alone with the 3 yr old from hell! Mine does all of this, and I've posted a recent incident on another thread for advice, but it really is so good to know that other people's children behave like mine! Leaving the house is a real flashpoint round here too, and I'm ALWAYS late for work because of it, no matter how early I start to get them ready.
Tomorrow is my one day off and its supermarket day, which means ds1 protests vociferously (just nicked that off the Vext thread) about being put in trolley prison, then legs it down the soup aisle the second he's let out. Ds2 nearly always has a huge, niffy poo halfway round, which means abandoning the half-full trolley, rounding up ds1 and struggling to the mother and baby room clutching ds2 under one arm and hauling ds1 (still protesting loudly) along by his hood.
I suppose its really tough to be a 3 year old, but god is it tough being the mother of a particularly wilful one!

Dear Uncertain, I think your ds and my dd (3.5)were twins separated at birth! Either that or they've met up somewhere and have been swapping tips on how to make their mothers crazy! I seem to spend my life arguing with dd at present - she wants my attention all the time and cannot accept that ds needs playing with occasionally too. After a nightmare few weeks when I seem to be telling her off all day everyday, I've decided to focus on my two main issues with her - picking on her brother (1 next week) and shouting abuse when she doesn't get her own way - and leave the rest for a bit. I'm conscious that ds is at a particularly loveable stage at the moment, and I'm getting a lot of pleasure out of him one minute and snarling at her the next - really trying not to let her pick up on this but it's tricky.

Princess Grace and Badhair - ME TOO! I was just thinking this morning (no, not thinking but 'guilting' that I seem to be constantly snarling at ds (3.4y), while cooing away with dd (12m) who's well into the oh-so-loveable-at-this-age stage, and it's JUST NOT FAIR. He is very very loveable, and it's not his fault that he's 3 and finding it tough. But oh it is tough being the mum of a threenager, you're so right.

The other day ds told us that he loves his daddy and he wants to be with his daddy, but he doesn't want to be with mummy. I felt so sad and bad that I'd made ds feel that way.