is it too early to start my 4 wk old newborn on a routine?

[mrsplat]

Hello,

I'm v.keen to get my son into some sort of routine, I have the Gina ford book (CLB) but from what it says, my son patterns are wildly different. Just wondering how u start? At the moment he eats every 2 hrs sometimes less, I'm waking every two hrs at night to feed which ends up about 5/6 feeds per night. I feel it will be a good idea in the long run if we put try to get establish sleep/feed times. The midwives/healthvisitors all say otherwise to co-sleep and feed on demand, I can't help feeling the co-sleeping will difficult for him give up when he has too. We had him sleeping in his Moses basket for 2 weeks but now he will only sleep on my chest or next to me. I guess what I'd like to.know is does Gina Ford only work for some babies and not others? I know he'll be very upset being put in a 3 hr feed schedule plus is it not important for them to eat on demand for their development? I'm in two minds as to what to do as u can probably tell but I would really like to try a schedule if its not too early for him. Does anyone have or has had similar situation? Many thanks Sasha

No, Zuleika. It took us two or three months to get to the stage where they were totally clockwork. There were results long before that, but we had good days and bad days. This is because it's not about forcing your child into a routine, it's about gentle guiding very much in the style that someone else described - push a nap back by a few mins each day etc. It's not stressful for the child. And both mine were breastfed so it's a nonsense to say it only works for bottle fed. But you will believe what you choose to believe ...

I used clb for my first 2 and found it brilliant, no3 baby and tring to juggle another 2 children amd werent having any of it.

Try it - some lOve it some. Loathe it - a fruend of mine felt it gave her some control back and sworeby it

Our DD (now 18 weeks) was ff from about 3 days. We did a feed every 3 hrs for the first two weeks and started on the first GF routine at the beginning of week 3 - the first routine is pretty much 3 hourly feeds anyway so it wasn't a hard transition, and we've successfully gone from there. She was sleeping 7-10.30pm, then 11pm-7am from 7 weeks which made us all happy! She doesn't follow the exact routine for her age as per the book, we just move things along when it feels right to do so (she's on the 3-4 month one now & will probably stick with this for a few more weeks).

The GF routines are working really well for us & we have a very happy & contented DD. I am the first to say it's mostly down to DD's temperament which has worked well with the structure of a set daily routine. I also think ff played a big part, not sure how it would have gone if I was bf... A few of my ante-natal group tried it, one baby clicked into it the same as ours, others didn't respond to it, all babies are different.

GF's method inspires a lot of strong feelings in people, for and against, which makes asking advice about it quite hard. If it's something you want to try then give it a go. The choice isn't between doing GF or having a close and special first months with your DS, we are successfully doing both.

Don't throw the book out - but maybe retire it to the book shelf for a while!

I very loosely followed GF and found it useful as a rough guide to nap times and feed times. I started by implementing the bath and bed time when DD was 6 weeks and I'd say by 3/4 months she was following the routine pretty closely. She was sleeping 7-7 regularly from about 6 and a half months. But, I listened to my baby and some things we didn't implement till she was older because I didn't feel she as ready (i.e. dropping the 3rd nap came much later after GF suggested it).

You'll quickly find your baby's own rhythm and it could be that they don't fit in well with the CLB routines. Just don't stress about it and accept that it could be months before any predictable pattern emerges.

Oh and we BF (and co-slept for a bit) and didn't find the routines hindered that at all.

The only routine we've established (and did so around 3/4 weeks) is that day is day and night is night. He's got that now, and beyond that I'd rather he didn't have a set routine tbh. He's learnt to go with the flow and that's a good attitude for life. If he's hungry, he's fed. If he's tired, he sleeps. The only rules are that we all go to bed sometime between 9 and 11pm and that when we're in the bedroom and the light is off, it's not playtime. Happy to feed and change and cuddle, but no playing. Now if he wakes up bored he chirps and wriggles on his own until he falls asleep again. It didn't take him long to learn that no-one plays at night (or for that matter that you have to wait for attention when the shower is on, or you're in the car!).

I think these books are a reasonable read in giving a mother an overview of how things will go along...how much sleep, how much feeding, etc, etc but I wouldn't agree that you can implement a book/guide to the letter...ever!

your child is an individual with their individual needs...I think the best advice is to learn to listen to your own child and respond to their needs

If you really feel you have the motivation and strength to be pushing on making up routines for your child then really good luck to you. For myself I went with the flow and worked around my baby and his needs and didn't really push to change what his needs were.
My DS was an extra hungry baby and it took me a few days to realise this...he was put on hungry baby FF and was a dream child after that...imagine his distress if I hadn't listened to him and was trying to regiment his feeds...poor boy would have been starving!!!

Try Tracey Hoggs EASY baby whisperer. Much less well known, but worked realy well for us.(Ds was bf for 11m btw).

Back off ZuleikaD, that's enough. You sound like a bully.

I think routines are best started between 4-6 weeks, gradually. My bf'ed DD's started at 2.5 hour intervals between feeds at 4 weeks then that shifted out to 3 hours by about 6 weeks, and 4 hours by 4.5 months.

GF was too prescriptive for me; Baby Whisperer was much better. GF's best advice was to start every day at the same time, regardless of when baby was last fed. For example, always start at 7am with a feed. That way, you'll know that when the grizzling starts at 9.45am its because baby is getting hungry.

BTW, can I let you into a little secret. Not often said on MN but a useful and important one.
whispers quietly

I found it a WHOLE lot easier in the evenings once I accepted that my bf babies could take a bottle of formula in the evening without stuffing up any of my Bf efforts. That evening bottle, given by DH, was my lifesaver. Happy baby, happy DH, happy mummy. Just one bottle a day won't hurt (once baby is say, 6 weeks and your supply is well and truly established) and will make a transition to bottles later down the line (if you're going back to work) soooo much easier.

I agree Kiwi. It worked for us and was a lifesaver when DD ended up in ICU at nine weeks and the nurses could help feed her when I couldn't.

Back off yourself, Kiwi - Rhubarb and I had an exchange of views and it's not your business to act as thread police.

Gina ford's routines are based on easy babies (she says it herself) which she applies to all babies.

So I reckon if you have an easy baby, it'll work and you'll think it's her book but actually baby would have done it anyway.

Her routines are useful for much older babies ie 6 months but for little ones, I wouldn't bother.

I did use routines for mine but based on their cues. Bedtime came first oh and waking for the day too which helped sort day vs night.

I am of the opinion a baby comes with no instructions and is like a blank disk. It needs helpingand training into a system and I do see mums have no routine with feeding which can led to mixed sleep patterns and wind problems. Having a strict routine isnt a new thing either.

I do get mad when people who havent even read the book or understand the routines can comment. And for many of us who need a routine and stability in life thrive on this, some of us had to get back to running a family business and cant lay about on the sofa all day. Many new mums are so knackered and as many say 'they dont come with a manual' and then stupid statements like 'it'll come natural' isnt the case. Pushing feeds to a set pattern, sleep regulated set both my boys into a great routine, hardly grizzly or sick.

Worked brilliant for us, many dont want to do it but its not for them to point the finger and make us out as nasty pasty parents because of their unqualified judgements in terms of physcological and medical damage we have inflicted on our offspring!

I have the book.

I've read it from cover to cover. Many times.

I don't think it works for everyone.

In that case, Iggly, please can you provide us with the actual quote where you say GF says her routines are for 'easy babies'. Because I think you'll find that what she's saying, is that the routine makes babies easier - which it does. Mine certainly weren't easy babies, far from it; that's precisely why I turned to GF.

Apart from anything else, why would any writer of a baby book claim it was for easy babies??

Strikes me this is just typical of the misinformation some people delight in spreading about GF, just because it didn't work for them. It works for plenty of other people as this thread demonstrates (refreshingly).

no I said GF said her routines were based on those of easy babies so IMO the book works for easy babies. That's not qquite the same as saying her routines are definitely for easy babies. that's my opinion. I will dig it out later when I can be arsed

I was given CLBB by a friend even pregnant and thought it was fabulous. I then actually had the baby and found it the most ridiculous thing ever!

If you really want a routine I personally found baby whisperer worked. My DD is EBF and has been on it since 6 weeks old. She's now 5 months. She started sttn at 9 weeks and other then the bastard 4 month sleep regression which luckily now appears to be over, has done ever since.

I realise routines don't work for everyone and this is just my experience, but I find it brilliant and have been able to successfully breast feed for 5 months, and will continue to do so.

Kiwi - It's not really the case that giving a baby a bottle of formula has no consequences for it though is it, if you are concerned about allergies for example or this idea of the "virgin gut".

You can get a baby used to drinking from a bottle without it being formula in the bottle.

I followed routines with all three of mine from the beginning, and they were all bf. I suppose looking back the routines were similar to GF, but timings were fairly approximate (eg there would be a morning feed at around 7/7.30/8ish depending on when they woke up, then a bit of wake time, then another feed etc). Every 3/4 hours or so. The most useful tip I was given was to really make sure the baby feeds really well when you do a feed (a good 20 mins or so) - I was probably lucky to have greedy babies(!). If they were sleepy soon after starting to feed, I'd wake them up to make sure they had enough. Then they were naturally happy to go the 3/4 hours to the next feed. Once you've got the gaps between the feeds, you've got the beginnings of a routine. Worked for us, and they are still all very happy and settled (at 6, 4 and 1)!