If you use a take-it-or-leave-it approach to your DC's eating...

[AngelDog]

...how do you deal with (or avoid) the meltdown later when they are now seriously hungry, refusing to eat pretty much anything and generally difficult?

My 2.8 y.o. seems to be getting fussier and fussier, and we are (unfortunately) discovering more foods he's allergic to. I've been thinking about using more of a take-it-or-leave-it approach, but when I've tried it, it always ends up with meltdowns and tantrums later when his blood sugar is low. If we say take-it-or-leave-it at dinner and he leaves it, he will always be awake for 2 hours in the night due to hunger (and of course, that means I have to be up too).

I suffer from sugar sensitivity which means I need regular food to keep my blood sugar levels on an even keel. DS shows lots of signs of being the same. If I say take it or leave it, he doesn't fuss, but he gets into a right state later when he is really hungry, and will then refuse most things except fruit.

He is in the process of dropping his nap, which means that keeping him well-fed is even more cruicial to maintain some calmness on a non-nap day. Going out is now really difficult as about the only thing he'll eat for lunch is cheese on toast.

He is a compliant child and not prone to tantrums. We've always been relaxed about food, offered (healthy) food we think he'll like - but always given him some things we know he doesn't and insisted that he tries some but doesn't have to eat any more if he doesn't want to. So, for example, I will give him pasta instead of the potatoes we're eating, but always make him try some of the potato.

He makes no fuss about having to try things, but always says he doesn't like them and then won't eat them. I really don't think food is a control issue for him. We eat all our meals together and he helps me shop for and cook the food.

We don't give him any junk food, and don't talk about any foods as 'treats'. We do ration some things, which he knows is either because of the effect on his digestive system (usually explosive poo!) or because they're too expensive for him to be eating lots of them.

How can I encourage less fussiness without having to spend half my time dealing with the fallout from him choosing simply not to eat what he needs to?

When you say 'take it or leave it' approach do you mean offering the food and if they don't want it you take it away without a fuss?

The way I see it there isn't an alternative approach which would solve any of these problems. The more pressure you put on him the more fussy he will become. By taking anything other than a 'take it or leave it' approach you would be likely to make his diet even more restricted and create more of the problems you describe in your post.

I'm not sure you can prevent him being fussy by doing the right thing. All you can do is make it worse by getting it wrong IYSWIM.

If he doesn't eat a meal you put in front of him could you let him fill up on fruit then instead so he doesn't get hungry later on or does 'take it or leave it' to you mean that he eats what's put in front of him or he gets nothing else?

I do "take it or leave it" with my 2yo DS, but he doens't have any allergies and to be honest, if he doesn't eat much it tends to be because he doens't need much that day, but then he'll eat like a horse the next day.

The only time I change this is if he has a tiny lunch with no protein, he is ratty when he wakes from his nap, so I give him a slice of bread and butter or a banana. If he says no to this I tell him he can't be hungry and can wait until dinner.

It's hard, not wanting to make an issue of eating, but also wanting to instill good habits.

One thing that I have found is that DS will eat a small portion of main course of dinner and then ask for a yogurt. If I think he hasn't had enough I just say "there isn't anything else tonight" and get on with emptying the dishwasher. 9/10 he'll eat some more, and if he doesn't, then I assume he isn't actually hungry.

Otherwise I was finding he was having a small "main", then a yogurt, fruit, some nut butter etc when I kind of see that "pudding" is for when you have a bit of space left after the main meal.

From reading you OP two things come to mind, firstly I don't understand the potato/pasta thing you mentioned. Do you mean that you are offering a choice at meal times? In my mind the take it or leave it approach is one meal, eat what you want off the plate and then leave the rest with no fuss.

Secondly I don't think there is any harm in offering a snack approx 2 to 3 hours after a meal whether it was eaten or not. Young children do need to eat little and often. I would make sure the snack is small and my choice rather than theirs but even so this might be more helpful.

I also think it's fine to offer toddlers a new meal/snack after 2 or 3 hours as toddlers aren't designed just to have 3 meals a day. My kids are much older (between 6 and 11) and still eat 3 meals plus 3 snacks. They eat breakfast, snack (at school and home), lunch, after school snack, dinner and supper.

I think that if he will try new foods then that's great. I spent months trying to convince them to smell and tolerate unfamiliar food on their plate without making a fuss and didn't get to the stage that you are at until older.

My DS sounds very similar (but not allegies). He is older now and can go longer without eating but the meltdowns from hunger were pretty dramatic at 2 and 3.

I would get comments about how it was no wonder he didn't eat his meals as he was always having snacks, but he is a grazer.

I used to leave the plate of food around so he could come back and help himself at any point after 'getting down', and offer snacks (rice cakes, fruit, cheese, milk) all the time.

It is annoying and not ideal, but he is still painfully thin and (my interpretation) blood sugar fluctations and has a tiny appetite so he has to keep eating. As he is so thin I am really relaxed about what he eats so long as there are a few mouthfuls of healthy stuff in the day.

We do exactly what Ozzie does. We're lucky that our Dts are not at all fussy, but some days they, or one of them, just won't like what is on offer. So we just let them leave it. On those days I will usually give them milk instead of water to drink after the meal and offer something like a yoghurt and a banana for pud to avoid the 'waking hungry in the night' scenario.

It sounds like your ds's suspected sugar sensitivity (and age) are the key things here, in addition to his allergies of course.

I've always been 'eat it if you want and leave it if you don't' with my children, but at 2.8 years they don't have the understanding to realise that doing the latter will leave them hungry very soon. I would provide simple, healthy food that he likes a while after a meal, if that keeps him on an emotionally even keel. Protein foods are better at stabilising bloody sugar than high sugar foods like fruit (I expect that you know this!)

I used to offer cereal before bed if they had not eaten much tea. Two hours to a toddler is an eternity. Also mine were still bf at that age, so they would just tend to take a bigger feed that evening. Both are excellent at regulating what they want to eat now, although are certainly not without their foibles of what they will/won't eat at the ages of 8 and 6!

DD (2.8) is very limited in what she will eat - it's not that she will eat something one day and refuse it the next, it's always the same stuff that she will eat, so I just make sure there is something she likes on her plate. For example, she always refuses potato in any form, so I guess she just doesn't like it. It's no big deal to cook some pasta for her instead, so I give her some of whatever we're having, a small bit of potato (which I know she will ignore, but it is there is case one day she decides to go for it) and some plain pasta. I think it would be cruel just to give her something I know she doesn't like. She has a snack about 3 hours after lunch (when she wakes from her nap) but nothig after tea.

She is a determine young lady and there is no way I could force her to eat something. I don't want meal time battles so I just vary the menu each day, make sure there is something substantial she likes and don't worry about it. Surprisingly, despite her limited repertoire she does have a very balanced diet by her own choice.

For my older one if she didn't like the meal I'd say to her if she was hungry she could get herself (she's 11) some bread and butter or fruit. But that's partually because she is quite capeable of going days without eating if she doesn't like it.

Personally I think if you know they don't like potato and do like pasta then don't make them keep trying the potato. If you know you don't like something, do you keep trying it? As far as I can tell, keeping on trying stuff just means that they reinforse that they don't like it.
If I know that they have given something a reasonable try, then I don't make them keep on trying it. Maybe after 6 months or so, I'll suggest they try again. They're usually happy to try again because they know it's once, not every time.
My dh doesn't like sprouts or broccoli. It's almost the only thing he won't touch. But whenever they had them (inc. at Christmas dinner) they had to "try" at least one every time up to leaving home. He now won't try them. However things that weren't deemed "must try" he has tried in adulthood and found he likes.

Do you offer snacks in between meals? If DS doesn't eat his breakfast i take it away but give him a banana or apple (something fool proof i know he'll eat) mid-morning. If he doesn't eat lunch i give him something mid afternoon (a yoghurt and some raisins, a piece of toast or whatever). You could maybe try milk during the day or before bedtime? I think the thing about 'take it or leave it' is ensuring they don't associate leaving a meal with immediately being offered an alternative or getting something sweet. If you leave it an hour or two there's no damage. Do you offer him a choice over what to eat, or just give him something? I always try to offer DS a choice wherever possible.

We grew up with take it or leave it. If we left it, the very next thing we ate would have to be the meal we left.

Presumably that was when you were older though Starlight? I agree with that approach for older children with a reasoning capability, but we're talking about a toddler and toddlers are notoriously picky eaters because they're exercising their independence and have limited communication skills. I think a gentler approach is sometimes needed to ensure they've eaten enough calories so they don't wake up hungry in the night or after naps, which does nobody any favours, least of all the parents. I'm not advocating reinforcing them leaving a meal by offering an immediate alternative or dessert, but a tired, hungry and grumpy toddler is no fun at all so it stands to reason that a healthy snack mid morning/ afternoon might help. And don't turn mealtimes into a battle imo. Toddlers are surprisingly strong willed for little people, so you're likely to come off worse as well as perpetuate a negative attitude to food and eating which should be an enjoyable experience.

Thanks for all the replies.

By a 'take it or leave it approach', I mean not cooking family meals based largely around what your child will eat (or not offering an alternative if you're making something they may not want).

I guess my intention hasn't been to prevent fussiness, but to (a) get him used to trying a wide range of foods and (b) not have food as a control issue.

I think the blood sugar thing is a big part of our problem. I do give him snacks every couple of hours - but if he refuses either the protein or the carbohydrate at one meal (or refuses the snacks available), he will be in meltdown by the time we get to the next snack/meal time and will then be amenable to eating even fewer foods (other than fruit).

I try to give him a choice over snacks and lunch.

I try to avoid letting him fill up on fruit as it doesn't keep him going for long enough. Protein is what really helps (as it does for me) but he doesn't always want it.

When I offer alternatives, it's either as a normal part of dinner (I cook fish for us, fish fingers for him but get him to try some of ours - or cook potatoes for us, pasta for him) or I offer a nutritionally equivalent alternative afterwards. So yesterday he wouldn't eat any of the chicken which was for dinner. I said, "Okay, as long as you've tried a piece, you don't have to eat it." He then ate the rest of his dinner (pasta). At the end of dinner, I offered him some cashew nut butter which he ate.

He is allergic to, or his eczema is irritated by: most nuts, coconut, egg, banana, cucumber, melon, kiwi, tomatoes, citrus, chilli, spices, baked beans, sesame. He doesn't like: fish (apart from shop-bought fish fingers or tuna), potatoes, any veg (apart from - sometimes - raw pepper and celery), cous cous, legumes, cheese (he'll only reliably eat it as cheese on toast or in homemade cheesy biscuits) or milk (other than on cereal). I'm intolerant to wheat and dairy, which makes family meals even more complicated.

DS does bf, although I don't think he gets loads of milk as he only has 1-3 feeds a day, and I'm 8 months pg.

A normal day would be:

Breakfast - porridge with fruit.

Snack(s) - cheesy biscuits, cashew nut butter sandwiches (which he'll only sometimes eat), oat biscuits, cream crackers, fruit.

Lunch - cheese on toast (though he seems to be going off that now), fruit.

Snack - as earlier.

Dinner - pasta or rice with meat, fish fingers and a token tiny piece of whatever veg we're having.

Snack (if dinner wasn't immediately before bed): as earlier.

From what people have said, I'm guessing that more of a take-it-or-leave it approach may not be any more successful than what we're doing already.

I have a picky DD aged 2.5 and it's a shock to me because my older DS has always eaten everything.

We don't cook differently for her, she gets what we're having on her plate and is encouraged to try it. There may or may not be a meltdown, or if it's something she likes eg pasta or fish fingers she's fine. If she'll only eat some of it (eg last night she had her chicken but no potato or salad) she will be offered bread and something like cucumber or banana to round out the food groups a bit. She also eats a lot of snacks and I try to get some healthy stuff in there, eg flapjacks, smoothie tubes, cheese etc to get some varied nutrition in.

The main thing with her is she's just massively contrary and will have a meltdown if she gets a chance so what works best is keeping it calm and matter-of-fact. She does get a (boring) alternative if necessary but there's no song and dance about it.

Also agree with leaving it there for a while after the meal. I've often seen her go back and eat it when it's no longer a focal point for a potential battle IYSWIM.

This morning she had a total screamathon about her weetabix - she loves weetabix, but the strop was about the fact that it was shedding crumbs and becoming misshapen. Ended up with a weetabix getting thrown across the room! We just stayed calm and eventually she asked for it back and ate it.

I think your approach is right and you're doing th best you can in difficult circumstances.

I would keep encouraging him to try little tastes of other foods and making sure you're serving something he likes.

You're not causing him to be upset or anxious while keeping his diet as varied and balanced as possible. I don't think you can do better than that.

Have you tried giving him home made smoothies when you think he needs a bit of topping up? My DD loves 'Pink milk' which is strawberries blended in milk with a couple of drops of vanilla essence.

It's hard enough even without a big list of allergies and dislikes - it sounds like you're doing a great job under pretty difficult circumstances.

Avocado is good on a cracker or on its own.

I make fish cakes which are just mashed potato, carrot and a tin of salmon, then cook in the oven - they seem to look/taste "shop bought" enough to satisfy DS who will often eat about 12 (they are bite sized!).

How about cream cheese or other dips/spreads. DS also loves hummous and oddly, babaganoush (how the Jeff you spell it I don't know). a friend who has a v fussy daughter tried her with taramasalata and she eats it with a spoon (boak).

Thanks for the encouraging words.

I hadn't thought of smoothies - will definitely give that a go.

I'd recommend having a look at some of Ellen Satter's stuff www.ellynsatter.com/ as her approach which she calls the 'division of responsibility' is fairly similiar to the one you are taking. From what I recall, she recommends offering a range of food at meals, including sometimes things that your child doesn't like, but also having at least one thing, usually bread, that they do. This blog takes a similar approach: thefeedingdoctor.com/blog/

Not much advice, but reading this with interest. DS1 (aged nearly 5) is quite fussy, and doesn't show signs of improvement. But, like your son, he goes into total meltdown if he doesn't eat regularly. The other day he wouldn't eat any (and I mean any) tea, so I wouldn't give pudding/snack. The next morning, he got out of bed crying and crying because his tummy hurt so much, and then proceeded to pass out three times in ten minutes (seriously, I mean eyes rolling up in the head, falling on the floor). I thought he was really ill, but after a massive breakfast he was completely and utterly fine. I do get quite cross with old bags people who say 'Oh, if he's hungry, he'll eat it'.