Help with two year old refusing to brush teeth....

[cheeseandmushroomtoastie]

Ds is 2.3 and used to happily let me brush his teeth after letting him have a go. The last couple of months however, he has decided thy sucking the toothpaste off the toothbrush is enough, and will not let me near his teeth. I am starting to worry as I can see they need a good brush, and yesterday his breath wasn't very pleasant.... Any tips, suggestions, recommendations very very welcome. I hve tried letting him choose his own toothbrush, toothpaste with characters on, have looked on YouTube for a 'brushing teeth' clip so he can watch a video on mobile whilst brushing but none of these have helped. I need to sort this before the dentist annihilates me..... And ds's teeth fall out.....

Thanks in advance

I agree it is non-negotiable, but I think if you are pinning a kid down, you've lost your way really. I have never backed down but I have never got into a physical battle either.

Is holding a child on your lap pinning him down? I don't think anyone is suggesting spreading and holding legs and arms on the floor...Have you never had to physical restrain a kid from doing something dangerous?

Physical restraint to prevent injury is different from forcing someone to do something or have something done to them (at risk of turning this into a philosophy lecture).

Someone upthread said they pinned their kid down and the child puked. That's what I was referring to.

I use this MN tip - "Let me just go in after those peas from lunch .... Are there peas up the top?.. What about over here? That mince from dinner, any mince in here?"

Sounds simple, but it changed our toothbrushing lives. (Thanks previous tipster!)

You could try talking to him about the tooth fairy, who will be delighted if his teeth are clean.

Or you could show him some pictures online of 'bad' teeth, to show him what can happen. Obviously, you need to strike a balance here, and not scare him.....

I agree with the poster who said that pinning him down should be a last resort, and does suggest you've lost your way a little.

Physically restraining a child to prevent them running into a road or jumping into a river IS different to pining a child down and forcing a toothbrush into their mouths. There are lots of different ways to coercing a child gently into doing what you want them and what they should be doing. Running into a road = dangerous. Not brushing their teeth = serious consequences but not dangerous.

I guess some would classify letting your child get caries as physical injury.

Wrt puking, my friend's DS pukes on command everytime he gets into conflict (actually winds himself up first and then invariably pukes). I imagine the poster was exaggerating a bit upthread. I'm reminded of a girl I used to bbsit who screamed blue murder if you went near her with a hair brush. The parents didn't want to 'force' her and she walked around with matted hair as a result!

I don't agree that doing things sometimes against the will of LOs neccessarily counts as losing your way a little. I also think there may be some harm in negotiating for an eternity at each conflict with wilful LOs (though, of course age will make a huge difference wrt to this point).

I agree that restraining a child from something dangerous is very different to pinning a child down (as op admitted she has done). If someone pinned an adult down & forced something into their mouth, that would be assault. How is it different when a parent does it to a toddler?

There are many ways to get a child to brush their teeth that doesn't involved getting physical like that. I would be careful of creating bad associations when it comes to teeth cleaning as that can lead to fear of dentists (have witnessed this in my job).

I am a dental nurse, so I get completely that teeth cleaning is non negotiable. I have 2 very different girls, with 2 very different personalities in my house & I have NEVER struggled to get them to brush their teeth & would never use force if they did.

I believe that giving a child a brush to play with gets them used to the texture early on & even if they only chew it, they are doing some good.

If someone pinned an adult down & forced something into their mouth, that would be assault. How is it different when a parent does it to a toddler?

Because they are children and aren't adults. I do get fustrated with this style of thinking. Children behave differently in all sorts of ways to adults, and have very different expectations. Adults are fully compos menses, we are expected to live independently and make choices, whether or not they are good for us. Clearly, toddlers are still very dependent on their parents.

I think as others have said forcing a child should be a last resort, but I don't think it does any harm. I have done it once or twice. DS wasn't keen to repeat the experience, and happily does his teeth now.

I also have to agree with LeBFG, you can't treat children as if they were adults, they are not. If anyone refused to let another adult out of the house, that would be a false imprisonment, and illegal. Any one treating another adult like a child would be seen as controlling and abusive, but that doesn't mean we should all let our children go where they want and do what they want, as they don't have the maturity to keep themselves safe.

I wasn't exaggerating.

I wrapped him in a towel and tried to clean his teeth. He got very upset (understandably) very quickly, he cried so much that he vomited in my lap.

I felt so guilty and have never done it again, it was an awful thing to do.

So it is OK to overpower & use force on a person that it so much smaller than you?

Exactly...they are dependant on us. And having dependant children comes a responsibility to show them what they need to do (brush teeth, shower, bath, etc) with care & consideration. Would you push a toddler into a bath full of water if she refused to take a bath? Would you force feed a toddler if they didn't want to eat?

If you answer yes to that, I think you need to rethink YOUR thinking! If you answered no, what it the difference then, to pinning a toddler down & forcing an object into their mouth?

You don't need to treat children like adults, I didn't suggest that at all. I suggested that we should treat them gently & not with undue force (pinning down etc).

And of course you can't let a child wonder out the house by itself..where did I suggest that!!! I am merely trying to make people see why it it is not acceptable to me, to pin a child down & force a toothbrush in their mouth!

That doesn't mean I want to treat them like adults. Believe me, my children get treated like children. I just use other means of doing that without resorting to pinning down & being forceful.

I made a terrible mistake, I wasn't saying it was ok at all. Far from it, I'm not proud of it at all and I will never do it again.

Shaky, nothing I have said is aimed at you. It is clear that you feel horrible about it. If I upset you, please accept my apologies.

Oh sorry different, I misunderstood because your post was the one after mine and took it the wrong way, sorry.

differentname, I didn't say you would let your children out on their own, my point was you can't apply the same rule to children that you do to adults.

I wouldn't push a child into a bath, but I have bathed a crying baby, as have most people. Is it wrong to hold a wriggly baby still to change a nappy? Or to strap an unwilling toddler into a car seat? Both involve using force, and could be considered an assault on an adult.

Plus, past a certain point kids are forced to eat - with tubes in hopsital. This just needs parents' consent. To have the right to do this to an adult you need to have a court order or something (not sure of the legalease, but hopefully, you see my point).

This thread has brought up some interesting moral issues. I guess our differences come down to parenting style. The only thing I winced at was the 'lost your way a little' comment. To me this means losing one's temper or losing control of the situation - neither of which apply to me and many people who make LOs brush their teeth.

I think if you have to pin a child down over teeth, you have lost control, of the situation, not necessarily of yourself/temper.

You can not compare tube feeding for children at imminent risk of starvation or starvation-related health damage with teeth cleaning!

In Denmark,where we live, the dentists provide information on how to restrain the child so that brushing may take place. I was shown photos of the 'right' and 'wrong' ways to do this. The 'right' way, apparently, is to have the child on their back on the floor.Their head is between your thighs and their arms are pinned under your legs. You can then hold their mouth open and have a jolly good brush. I have had to restrain my daughter on a couple of occasions and she now knows I mean it when it comes to tooth brushing. She lets me brush them with no problems now and does not need restraining.

That makes me a little

Can't you just see this is an extension of the debate about the way parents treating kids isn't the same as adults treating other adults?

I love this use of the 'pinning' word. I definately pin my DS on occasions when he wiggles on the change table. When I want to brush his teeth and he screams and wiggles, I sit him on my lap, face forwards, I hold him in a hug embrace and with one hand wait for him to open his mouth and I'm in with the brush - it's over very quickly, but he'll want to swallow once or twice, so out brush comes, he gulps, brush goes back in. There is no shoving the brush brutally around, no fastening of arms and legs on the floor, nothing like Danish restraint above. I'm a bit annoyed people can think this means tI've lost control of the situation. It's a planned intervention, with a clear goal, lots of praise/reward etc. In less than a week he had dropped the fight - we now do exactly as I describe above but without the hug restraint.

I'm just not a 'forcing' kind of person. I find a way round it usually. Maybe I just have compliant kids (altho it doesn't bloody feel like it!)

And by 'find a way round it' I mean I make them do it, but I am more of a wily old woman willing to wait it out til the death type, they know I won't back down.