Please help me with my relationship with my 3 year old!

[Phoebedoo]

Hello Fellow Mum's

This is my first post and really honestly I feel quite tearful! - In future I promise to respond more and not be such a voyeur in the conversations - I just don't know which way to turn.

My little girl has moved into a phase when crying and whining and making noises like I've never heard before seem to be the standard way of communicating. I know she is secretly charming and funny and bright and sociable but I don't seem to have seem any of that stuff for ages and I'm a bit worried about my skills as a parent.

I'm seeing a really bad side of myself; I can't seem to keep my temper and lose it with her in a flash. I always seem to be shouting and making silly threats, pulling her around to try to get her to listen. It's awful. Really horrible.

She whines. I nag. She moans. I shout. She wails. I wail. We;re in an awful cycle and I'm scared that this'll be what it's like when she's a teenager. Is that daft? It's years away.

She appears to have lost her manners and just orders me and hub around all the time.

It sounds like I'm running her down.
She'd probably say the same thing about me given the chance.

We've had a few changes recently (haven't we all) we've started her at preschool for 2 days a week - instead of 1 day and we said farewell to dummies a couple of months back too so she's not sleeping very well...but our days are long, moany and fun less and I just don't know what to do.

I feel like I might snap.

If anyone could offer any reassurance I would be so grateful. Or tips or advice....

I really feel for you.
I wonder do you get any time out of your own?

I don't do too badly really - I have a really interesting job and work mornings and 2 evenings a week. I know it's not meant to all be sunshine and flowers but I don't feel like I'm doing the right thing by her at all at the moment!!

Think this is just one of her 'challenging' phases, just try and remember to praise her when she is being well behaved to give her more reason to behave better.
I find myself threatening my DD on a daily basis that I will take treats away or send her to bed early when she is playing up but she has just started a new class at school and sometimes these things are down to change.
Maybe the extra day at pre-school has just unsettled her and she will calm down soon?

3 is way worse than 2 :) There were a lot of times I did not like my DD1 when she was 3! And you are reacting the way we all do by shouting and losing your temper: then we drown in mummy-guilt afterwards. It's horrible (and then they are 4. Uggh!)

I'd recommend Have A New Kid By Friday, Kevin Leman. It's a quick read, very practical and it works. It will help you change your child's behaviour - quickly - by changing how you parent and allowing you to be the parent you want to be. I have a very strong willed 5 year old and I could have written your post. I was that shouty mama trying to force her to behave and losing my temper. I'm learning how to respond - instead of reacting - and I see the improvement for all of us. I like me better as a parent, my child is happier and her behaviour is vastly improved. It took me making an honest appraisal of all I didn't like about my own behaviour and how my reactions and inconsistency were causing the problems. As Leman says in his book - it takes two to fight and by fighting your child you teach her to fight and worsen your relationship.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you! I'll have a look into the Kevin Leman book. If I'm honest she has seen me and my husband arguing a couple of times recently too - which is quite unusual - so she's seen me in a proper rant!! - That and preschool - she's still at nursery too....
I thought I'd be so much more fun and much more patient as a parent - I dunno. I held her by the shoulders last night and ordered her to stop crying stop crying stop whining and moaning....GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.......
We are really seriously inconsistent too - we say we'll take something away and then we don't - becasue it doesn't suit us! - I know we're giving her mixed messages!!

One thing I've really liked and benefited from in the book is the idea of 'waiting for the teachable moment'. Like you, I often threatened to take something away knowing, even as the words came out of my mouth, that I would not follow thru as I was threatening to stop an activity she loves but I also like taking her to. So I was totally inconsistent.

Now I wait till the tantrum is over and, when she next asks for something, like a biscuit or a treat in the shops, I say no. When she asks why I tell her I don't like the behaviour of earlier and I tell her how her behaviour made me feel. (That's not to say I ignore tantrum whilst it is happening, it's just that the consequence tends to come later, when I have time to reflect calmly). Of course she will say she is sorry, but (and this is key) she still loses the treat.

Interestingly although she now loses 'smaller' things than I was threatening the loss of - this weekend her sister got a new hair ribbon and she did not because she had been tantruming earlier in the day - i can see that she is really processing the consequence and changing her behaviour. Also she does not blow up but accepts calmly that her behaviour had been bad and she had to take the consequence.

The kid seems to have found a whining voice amongst her third birthday presents. She doesn't use it often, but when she does I just ask her what happened to her normal voice. Sometimes it works - if it works perfectly she laughs. Other times it doesn't. I think it's a phase.

I think you may find the How to Talk so Kids Will Listen and Listen so Kids Will Talk book helpful, and maybe the Naomi Aldort 'Raising our Children, Raising Ourselves' as well.

We all get into those cycles, the key is pulling ourselves out of them and you've made the important first step of recognising it. So many parents don't even get that far.

The thing is that you've kind of got into a rut of self-fulfilling prophecy - she whines, you think she's whiney, whether or not you tell her that she will be aware of your view of her as a whiney child, and then identify herself as a whiney child and do it more...which makes you think she's whiney even more.

This post I wrote last year may help you too, about self-fulfilling prophecy.

My dd had a phase like this. It drives you insane doesn't it.

You just have to trust that it won't last forever. And don't feel bad that you are "getting it wrong" somehow - its a normal phase for three year olds to go through. She won't be like this in 6 mths time.

In the meantime just muddle through as best you can. Try not to strangle her but don't worry if you shout sometimes. They are infuriating and it does them no harm to learn that they are being a pain. As long as you make up after (and you apologise if you were unfair) then no harm done.

Hang in there. Sometimes it seems like all you say all day is "no" in varying angry-furious-hysterical tones and at a wide range of volumes. And no matter how much crying or how many times your little girl appears to understand the "lesson", she then goes and does it again. Then ensues more hysteria and talk-shouting over one another and, if really bad, a hand-smack, then snivels and comforting and the cycle begins again, finally ending in everyone going to bed feeling miserable and guilty... right?

I've also been terrorised at the thought of having such a relationship with my little girl as a teen. But stick to your guns, if the 'nos' are valuable, don't back down, and slowly but surely you'll see she starts to get it and calm down. And you'll be best friends again.

I've been going through this for a year... and now she's gone back to being the sweet little girl I knew she was underneath it all... interested and inquisitive and cooperative and affectionate. I read recently that it's easier to loosen a screw than to tighten one (something my husband-the-engineer immediately contradicted) in the sense that it's easier to be strict and occasionally relent; while being a pushover and then occasionally deciding to be strict is impossible for a child.

Good luck!

Thank you so much. It's been fairly bad again today. Pretty sure we need to find a strategy and then just stick to it. I totally agree about the self fulfilling prophecy thang too - today I was nervous when I picked her up from nursery - worried that her behaviour would ruin another afternoon. Which it did. Love the idea of looking for her real voice - not the whiney one! Will try that tomorrow - or maybe in the middle of the night tonight! PHEW! It really really does help to know that other folks have the same experience doesnt it?
My poor son is nly 1 and he doesn't know whats going on half the time! He just wants to put his dummy in a shoe!

yup, I hear you; my dd is 3.7 and is like this too; not all the time, and there are clear triggers - tiredness, hunger, excitement, transitions etc. so try to watch for those. We are mostly consistent, but sometimes she just gets into a mood where she thinks that this time something different will happen. I do follow through on threats, and I try to stay calm (she's kind of sensitive, so shouting will simply escalate the meltdown). Sometimes you need to give them a way of saving face. So in the middle of it all I just ask her to come over, or go and sit her on my lap and hug her. That works surprisingly often. There is no point trying to reason with them when they are already overwhelmed by rage/impotence/injustice; they just can't do it. Focus on helping them regain control of themselves. When calm you can talk about what happened (my dd is usually very insightful and knows exactly why something happened, but is herself powerless to help her initial responses) and how to avoid it next time. SOmetimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but it's all part of teaching them how to behave. My god it's difficult sometimes though

Just a phase but I know how god awful it is when it's happening... We are coming out the other side now thank goodness but 'challenging' is one of the nicer words I could use to describe my 3.6 DD... Others are not so nice.

She is far too much like me for my liking!

It will pass in the meantime count to ten and remember it's not forever.

Same. 3.6 and she is (apparently) exactly the same as I was at that age. Karma says her little girl will be just the same and together we'll laugh! I just can't seem to get through to her at all at the moment. I say something and she either says or does the exact opposite! I tried saying the opposite of what I wanted her to do just to see what happened. Oh dear dear dear.

It's not for ever! You're right! x

I did that opposite thing too recently!! It worked! but only the once...

Just wanted to add that you really are not alone with this. I have a 3.9 year old DS and he is exactly the same - he whinges, tantrums, cries a lot. There are moments of happiness in amongst the whinging but they are few and far between and fleeting

It really is hard work and I feel like we walk around on eggshells with him a lot of the time as we don't want to set him off...it also seems that once he gets himself into a whinge-fest, he cannot get himself out of it. You also cannot talk to him and get him to understand anything.

As he is my second child, I am conscious that I don't spend as much time with him as I maybe should (he is fairly self-sufficient whereas DS1 can be quite demanding) - so every now and again I will try and spend quality time with him and it always goes pear-shaped very quickly

I have no answers - but I can't remember DS1 being like this so maybe it is a phase that passes and the memory is erased

Oh wow, Phoebedoo, just come on to look at advice on tantrums and your post could have been my post!

Dd1 2.11, funny, happy, sensitive, caring little soul (bit of a fussy whiner at times) has just started tantruming, usually in public and very dramatically with a voice which sounds like she is possessed which I've never heard before. It's upsetting, and if I'm honest a little bit scary as nothing seems to calm her down. I have tried to be calm and collected and do the ignoring thing but when she's screaming and hurling things I have lost my temper with her and dragged her quite roughly to a quiet corner where I have hissed some pretty hurtful things to her which blatantly only upsets her more. I feel as out of control as she is when it happens, not the calming, reassuring presence that I want to be.

And I do feel like it is more my problem than hers because I am the adult and should be able to control myself for her sake but my temper just gets the better of me and I loose it, what kind of example am I setting?!

Like you, my dd1 has just started back at preschool 3 days rather than 1, and we've had a topsy turvey few weeks as far as routines are concerned and I'm pretty sure that these factors plus her age are the triggers and I'm sure we'll come through the other side and find my lovely little girl again but I just worry that the way I handle it is going to have a detrimental affect on her long term.

So, sorry, I have no answers but can most def reassure you you are not alone and thank you for your post so I know I'm not alone and I can use some of the advice you've had on here.

Let me know how you get on and if anything works!!

and do any of you have a kid who just 'tunes out' - my dd just goes into the zone, and apparently cannot hear me at all; although if I then say that x or y will not happen, or utter the word 'chocolate' or 'biscuit' then she is magically restored to us...

Oh how true!! Actually second week back at per school and today has been considerably better than before. Only one tantrum, ate her dinner without too much complaint and the world seems like a much friendlier place today!!! X

my DD has had this phase on and off since she turned 3, we have a hellish bad week then a few good weeks, then a bad week etc etc.

sometimes you can just tell when she wakes up when it's a bad day - won't listen, won't eat, pushing little brother around. i now try to work with her, rather than us each winding each other up more and more.

i try to spend more time at home (which she enjoys), especially if she seems more tired than normal, and not spend too much time doing the boring things (shopping, cooking) which is when she can get very whiney. I try to do the things i know she enjoys - if i have to do cleaning then she loves to help with her own duster, if i have to go shopping then she gets to push the trolley/ sit in the trolley/ stand in the trolley (whichever is current favourite), and choose something for her tea.

if she gets overwhelmed and it turns into a tantrum, then i'll ask if she want a hug till she calms down and we try and sort out why she's upset. this sees to go against lots of advice, but we both find it much less stressful and seems to resolve the situation much more quickly(she gets lots of hugs anyway so i don't think

in short, i accept it's a phase, and go easy on her for a few days until she snaps out of it. i don't let her get away with being rough to her brother, but i don't try to aggravate her by getting to the point where we argue over every small thing

This is my aim - i still have my shouty days, especially when i'm tired, but these are always far more stressful for me than those days when i take my time with her.

MrsD totally agree about the hug - this happened tonight (DD tired, busy and stimulating weekend, all day at nursery today) and things were escalating, so I just put her on my lap without discussion, said soothing things and read her a story. SHe continued to be a pain in the arse, but at least it wasn't in a tantrummy way...

I read a book called 'playful parenting' to try and help avoid tantrums before they really happened. It wAs full of amazing case studies about this psychologist really helping kids by mucking about and I though it would work perfectly for us!! I ended up behaving like a clown for half the time and crazed manic mum for the rest of the time!!!! Did it help us with tantrums? No not really! Hugs are good. Must giv more hugs!! Xxxx

read that book too (well skimmed it); it was good, but it's so exhausting - I can sometimes head a conflict off at the pass by distracting or by turning it into a game, but mostly I just wish she would do what I tell her without delay, debate or distraction - but she is only human, and only 3!