Speech - is this normal, and can I do anything to help?

[MyNameIsInigoMontoya]

DS is nearly 4 3/4, and about to start school. I would say he has a very good vocabulary and grammar for his age (though that's just my guess), and definitely no hearing problems (ears like a bat!). However I have noticed lately that he still has several sounds he can't pronounce properly at all, and every so often he will really struggle to get me to understand something he's saying. Obviously this is worse with other people too; DH and I can understand him better as we're used to it.

I'm not expecting perfect pronunciation at this age of course, but am not really sure what's normal, and the reason I'm asking is because DS now gets very frustrated and upset if I can't understand what he's trying to tell me. Although I try not to make an issue of it, he is sometimes almost in tears and tells me "but Mummy you are not using your ears properly", or "it's not my fault, it's just my voice!" while looking heartbroken, and I really feel for him!

The sounds he struggles with most are c, g, ch although there are probably a few others too. For example, "caught" sounds more like "taught", "grass" is more like "srass" and he struggled a lot with "choose".

Is this normal for his age, and is there anything I can do to help him become clearer without making him more self-conscious about it? Thank you!

My DD, just 4 and also starting school cant say her 'l's, pronounces them as 'y's so - 'little' is 'yittle' IYSWIM. I've looked at a SALT website, can't remember the link sorry, but it said at this age it's common and they eventually outgrow it. In all other ways, her speech is great, no problems.

Maybe just wait until school starts, maybe they'll flag it up if it's a concern or will help with a SALT referral.

My ds has had speech therepy for exactly those sounds.

C and g, I think are sounds that they should get at 2yo, so he is behind. Ch is a 5yo sound so they wouldn't be worried about that. Ds would say "t-ass" for "grass" as he can't blend another constonant with a r sound.

Tbh I would get him checked out with that. Ds has hearing issues (glue ear) so he doesn't hear it properly. It is worth having a hearing check as it's the first thing they'll ask if you apply for speech therepy in this area (for pronunciation not vocab) and children adapt very well to hearing issues-it took me about 3 years before I realised how much ds was lip reading Ask you GP/HV for a referral.

What they say is don't make them repeat stuff, and don't show them how they've saying it wrong. Just repeat back pronouncing it properly eg. "There's a tat." "That's right there's a Cat over there".

The speech therepist with ds, would do one sound at a time. They'd play a game and first time whenever he won a point (or whatever) he had to say "c...c...c" He just thought it as part of the game. Then they moved on to saying words in separate syllables so he'd say "c..at" Then "cat" on it's own, then "cat" in a sentence. (and other words)

Hm, interesting. Might have a search for some SALT sites to try and get more information on what is normal for that age.

DeWe what you said about repeating it back correctly is what I've been trying to do. But it seems more as though he can't quite make the sounds than as though he's hearing them wrong.

I do feel fairly sure he hasn't got any hearing issues - I was always a bit on the alert as I suffered as a child with recurring ear infections so think I was often partly deaf for a while. But he's not seemed to get the infections like I did, and really seems to hear amazingly well. We hardly dare talk about him when he's upstairs (meant to be) in bed, as we too often hear a little voice commenting from upstairs... and he is getting quite good at working out the sounds that make up words, for example (like, "get" = g, e, t). Only when he says the whole word it will sound more like "det"... He also has an odd habit at the moment, if I'm telling him something "learny" (like how something works), of sort of repeating what I'm telling him under his breath as I say it. Bit annoying actually, but at least it shows he seems to be hearing what I say!

When my ds started school he had similar speech issues. Tat (cat) & dod (dog) were his favourite animals! I hadn't worried about it until it started hindering him learning his sounds for reading. He was referred to an audiologist who diagnosed mild glue ear not requiring any treatment and also referred to a speech therapist. We saw her once and he was given some exercises to do - which just involved him saying words starting with the sounds he had trouble. She discharged him the same day. We practised the sounds sporadically for a few weeks and his speech recovered very quickly.

Sorry can I hijack?

My DD has just turned 3 and her speech is improving day by day. She's having proper conversations now on the telephone and face to face using full sentences (even the little words that we sometimes don't even use ourselves!), but similar to the OP's DC she says 'T' in place of 'C' and 'G'.

Without going through the time-consuming task of trying to get her to see a Speech Therapist, the exercises that have been mentioned in this thread, can we do those ones with her ourselves to help improve it?

If she can have a conversation on phone that others understand, she's doing pretty darn well. DS is starting school & we still struggle to understand a lot of what he says in person, and his is relatively mild speech delay. Sentences > 6 words may defeat him, struggles with words of 3-4+ syllables.

I've had 2 thru speech therapy, they had same general problems. The sub of T for hard C & D for hard G is very common, I think it's called fronting. The child moves the speech-making to front of mouth.

IME, if you ask for referral from HV, you will quickly (within 3 months, maybe within 6 weeks) get an assessment from the SLT (they'd love to get you off their books quickly!). And then they can confirm the exact problems & give you some basic guidance what to do to help improve things, all this before proper SLT starts, which could be many months later. Private SLT assessment will give you same guidance, just a bit quicker.

In meantime:

Lots of listening exercises, enunciate the key tricky sounds very clearly and slowly in your own speech.

Try to make eye contact when you're speaking, so that they can see for themselves how your mouth makes those sounds.

FGS, don't correct them. It will just annoy.

Modelling back to them how to say those things correctly is double-edge sword, I now find that DS expects me to parrot back to him every single thing he says!! It's very irritating. No way to have a conversation, and he bloomin' nags to confirm I heard him.

There are specific listening exercises SLT would give you to do together, SLT involves a lot of homework for parents.

Montonya one session with private SLT might give you enough basic listening exercises to get you started, whilst waiting for NHS-SLT to be offered.

fwiw, I think DC2 had same problems, but I never pushed for SLT for her; phonics work at school sorted it, luckily. She was also almost 5 when she started.

OP you should see your GP and ask for a referral to SALT. The school will no doubt suggest you do this soon anyway. Our DS1 waa referred for help with his pronunciation of the letter S and the SALT was fab and saw him in school. You would expect normal pronunciation at this age so i'm sure your sons teacher will flag it up. It will be very frustrating for your son if he cant make himself understood at school.

Ha, the school suggest referral, as if!! Not ime, anyway.
Do expect to be proactive yourself.
DS2's teacher only mentioned his speech as an afterthought, after 6 weeks of school, because her name was Miss Clarke & he changed the Cl sound into a F.

Oh, HV is a good idea, I tend to forget they exist (not really needed them since DCs were tiny), but would rather go through them than GP if it comes to the same thing, if we went to GP I think DS would want to know why and I don't want to make him more self-conscious! Maybe I should have a chat with her.

I may have made it sound worse than it is too, most of the time I can understand him fine and most other people can too, but every so often there's a word that throws us both. So I wouldn't be surprised if basic listening exercises or similar was enough to sort it out, if I knew what to do!

And thanks for all the replies!

im a foundation/reception teacher. if you told me your concerns at the start i would begin the referral process for you. if you talk to the teacher make sure you list the sounds that ds struggles with as it will help her fill in the form. You could try your HV but if ds starts school this year he's probably already on the school nurses list not HV. most teachers would be pleased that you have noticed. i have to battle for ST with parents in denial. Depending how well you get on with the teacher you could reccomend the 'black sheep programme'. we use it as we have alot requiring ST. its a series of activities to develop language (not so relevant if the problem is speech and not language).

black sheep press not programme :)

You've had loads of really useful advice so nothing much to add but just to say I helped my dd with these sounds by getting her to practice lying on her back as the tongue naturally falls to the back of the throat so c and g sounds are easier to make!

The mouth opens bigger for hard C & hard G sounds. Practice saying C/T & G/D sounds yourself, and notice how your mouth needs to be different.

Lots of brilliant advice on here. Yes, your son is doing a process called fronting. Get your health visitor to refer you to SLT services and it is something which can be easily treated (commonly by using Black Sheep Press resources as it happens). It might be useful to see if he is able to say that c/g sounds by itself? Or does he say the sound anywhere in any words eg. middle or end of a word like book for instance? If he is able to say the sound, they will be able to start therapy with him. THe last two posts are very useful: get him to really notice how the sound is produced (if he can produce it) or get him to open his mouth really wide and keep his tongue down while trying to say it. If he isn't able to say the sound at all, don't panic as this is something the speech therapist will have strategies to work on with him.
Again, as another poster said, don't correct but model the correct sound for him within words and conversation and see if you can get him a speech therapy referral!
Hope that helps.

I think he is better at making the sounds within words, it seems particularly bad with the first letters of words. I'm trying to think back... for example I think "chocolate" would be more like "tokolate" but not necessarily "totolate". Will have to listen carefully tomorrow and see exactly where the problems are! I have talked to DH tonight and he agrees we should bring it up to get him assessed - so it's not just me that has noticed it.

His language otherwise is really good - I think his grammar is probably ahead for his age, I rarely notice any mistakes except the odd wrong past tense (e.g. "catched") which I'm sure is very normal. And his vocab is very wide too and regularly surprises me. So I think it may be more of a physical issue in his case.

Well if he's managing the sound elsewhere in words, that is very positive. Therapy would follow the line of the child producing the sound in isolation, then with a vowel, then in single words, in phrases and then in sentences and conversation. If he is able to produce the sound elsewhere this can only speed up that process.

It does sound like purely an articulation difficulty which, with a little bit of help, could be remedied. Best of luck!

My son had speech therapy for his speech. He couldn't pronounce sounds that needed the tongue ie 't' 'l' so dad was gag. He replaced the sound with a sound made with the back of your throat ie 'g' 'k'

The nursery referred him. The therapist had him say a list of words and chose which sound to start on 't' this meant she showed him where in her mouth her tongue goes to say it and really exaggerated the sound. Then she kept repeating it. It moved on then to playing games like snakes and ladders wher every square had a 't' word on such as 'top' 'tin' etc. He had to say I've landed on the x square.

He did this for each sound needed. I would definitely get a referral as it's better for you if you see how the therapist does it first.

I had become so used to knowing what ds was saying I couldn't hear how many sounds he was actually getting wrong.
He's been signed off now but I still have to correctly model the tricky words for him to ensure he continues to improve.

Just a quick update in case you were wondering:

I called the HV to get her advice but she said as notes had already been passed on to the school, it would be better to go through them.

So after DS started school I had a word with his teacher and asked if she could have a listen and see if she thought there were any problems or it was normal for his age. They do some assessment work with the new children in the first 2 weeks anyway so I thought that would be a good chance for her to have a listen.

We talked again at the end of last week and she said that although there were a couple of sounds he hadn't quite got yet, it was "not too bad" for his age. So she said she would keep an ear out for a bit longer and then we can decide whether any action is needed. So, a bit of a "watch this space..." for now, but at least she did not think he has a big problem.