Those of you who WERE dreamy children ...

[Bink]

... can you remember what used to wake you up/bring you out of your dreams/get you to focus?

My ds (who's nearly seven) is having yet another week in outer space - dreamy and distracted and vague and unproductive and unco-operative at school (unco-operative more because he spaces what's expected of him than because he's being oppositional, which he isn't really) - and, though it sounds like a minor problem, when it's constant like this it's really exhausting for everyone, the teachers, the other kids, us.

He wakes up for maths (sometimes), piano, and novelty - like a school trip to the library. What used to wake you up, and do you have a sense of how, or why?

I had the shouty teachers under my nose suddenly, too. And the epiphany at 15 when I could stop MATHS and SCIENCE and wake up.
Deadlines and raw terror I'm afraid :(
And then I would come home and continue my cycle of derivative and dreadful novels set in an Andre-Nortonesque medieval Celtic kingdom instead of my homework.
I hope you are encouraging them to document their latterday Gondal. We keep all of ds' offerings. We like the Baby, the Skelly and Me, all about his travels with dd in her pink velour babygro, his fluorescent skeleton called Annalisa and himself of course.
Good luck with helping him to strike a balance. I don't recommend fluent motherly expletives and blasphemy as a solution, it never worked on me...

I was a terribly dreamy, drifting child. Lived permanently in my own imagination and can hardly remember primary school, except the rare occasions I woke up, and found myself doing maths or something equally alarming. Finally started living in the real world around the time of A levels - could do the subjects I liked and understood - and have hung on by my fingertips ever since. Am now a writer - and dh another dreamy child, is a writer too - so obviously all that internal life has led onto something (almost) worthwhile. Am now plagued by a dreamy ds2 who is funny and imaginative, which I love about him, but he also drives me mad as he can't remember to put on socks, or where his school bag is. I think I might be a strong advocate for NOT waking dreamy children up - they're storing up a rich bank of thoughts and ideas - and you need to play the long game and hope they'll swim into focus by the time they leave school. Afterall, he did remember all that history from the lesson. . . .

I was a daydreaming child and still have a very short attention span, but fortunately I was bright enough for it not to be seen as a problem. I remember that it was painfully boring to sit in lessons hour after hour as the pace was so slow. I bear to couldnt sit in university lectures and passed all my exams by self study. My DS1 is that same, he sits in class and rarely finishes his written work. Interestingly his class teacher thinks he is very bright and an original thinker but he just cant get it down on paper. At the moment we are just watching and waiting, he is happy at school and he is gradually learning to focus a bit. Fortunately he is so like me that I understand him

This is so so interesting, isn't it. You are all saying the same thing, aren't you? - and it was my experience too - that until you yourself were ready to wake up - which seems, frogs's advanced daughter aside, to be an adolescence thing - dreaminess & the distractions of the active brain just are not things someone on the outside can "fix".

Following RedTartanLass's ideas, he's gone into school today with a note to keep in his pocket about trying to behave well (because he isn't just placidly dreamy, he's physically flitty and disruptive too - that's really the problem bit of it) - on the principle that he'll remember something tangible & written, whereas he'd forget me saying it.

One last question, if I may: were any of you dreamy types considered to be ADHD and/or medicated for it? And if so, can you tell me what difference that made?

No, not medicated. Received quite spiteful primary school reports from teachers who clearly thought I thought I was better than them :(
But I am a old codger bink and I don't think ADHD had even been identified when I was at primary school.

I was very dreamy as a child - Having something specific to focus on would help me not to daydream so much - a special task / role like milk monitor or making a special storybook front cover - Couldn't stand someone just standing in front of me waffling on or nagging me - I would just "switch off" and go into "Dreamland" - Could do it at the drop of a hat if neccessary!! I understand now, it must have been very frustrating for the adults around me, but I really couldn't help me. I needed a lot of structure and to know exactly what I should be doing and when - a "Day Plan" always helped me too.

With hindsight, I think that I was a quite an intelligent child and needed a lot of stimulation and 121 attention (unfortunately for aforesaid adults!) I think I got bored too quickly and just shut off.

Mmmmmmm, I hope that helps a little Bink????

My dd is 7 and school has said this about her from time to time all through since pre-school.

I'm not too worried though because she actually is taking it in. I know she is because suddenly she'll start talking about lessons and facts she's learned and knows. I think she just thinks deeply about it all and mulls it over in her own time.

I have asked her to perk up and look like she's listening etc, but well, that's how she is. I think sometimes teachers can be a bit literal and expect everyone to react in the same competitive loud way at school, and if they don't then that (to them) = dreamy = not learning; but I think that is not always the case.

One thing to consider though is hearing. My dd is probably a dreamy type anyway, but she does have a minor hearing problem - which is fixable -but has dulled her hearing somewhat.

Yerss, am old codger myself too - in terms of predating things like ADHD - but also slightly in attitude to medicating - question of long-term brain-chemistry effects (hence why I'd love to hear from adults who think it helped them). I do of course know that there are children (and their parents) for whom Ritalin/Concerta is a life-saver - we aren't in that category, but just maybe ds's problems are what those are there for?

CaptainD (strangely appropriate name ) - yes, that's all very familiar - hence why he's so lovely on school trips - endless stimulation of new stuff & a context where excited curiosity is permitted (& even welcome) (as opposed to when whole class is being carefully led through double-digit subtraction).

tinygang, sorry, cross-post, not ignoring! Ds has had hearing tests, and was of course lovely & attentive (novelty again) and aced them.

I can't decide, honestly, if we/school are asking too much of him. It's having repercussions for the other kids though (teachers having to deal with ds all the time) so if there's anything we can do to help I want to. I think that's my bottom line.

Adulthood has improved my "condition" a lot btw - esp. having little ones (eyes in back of head, needing to be on the go constantly etc etc etc!!) but I am still "dreamy" (hence the MN name!! ) This has proved very difficult with refernce to driving - I get sooooooo bored - for the 1st 30 mins of my lesson I'm fine, driving perfectly and then all of a sudden "click" I am in the kitchen making dinner or thinking about the following day - Whoops!! It is very frustrating indeed - I just want to pass my test!! Bleurgh!! I do feel for you and for your DS too, mmmmmmm ........

Perhaps having someone with him for two or three mornings a week, giving him some attention and stimulation might help? - You could ask - I had a CSA with me for a few mornings when I was about 10 /11 and it really helped me and the other children in my class - no to mention my poor teacher!!

(I also got through University too btw!! )

Bink - love the idea of a note in his pocket to remind him. Sometimes, in an attempt to remind dd to stay focused/strive for the "listening badge" at school, I draw a little asterisk in felt tip on the inside of her wrist. I hope that the visual cue will remind her to be attentive, so that the teacher doesn't have to.....

Um... is leaving him to it an option at all, Bink? He is still a baby really- surely a short attention span and ability to enter own world for hours on end isn't so desperately unusual at that age? Sounds like the school are taking things rather seriously when perhaps he just needs time. Is it quite a high achieving school? I don't think my boys' school would notice- all the kids there are flibbertigibbets with flea like capacities for concentration unless activities are self chosen, it seems to me. Yet they all seem to be learning and enjoying life in their own funny little ways. Maybe minibink needs to be cut some slack?

scummy, it is a private school - so, yes, I think it has higher expectations than others might. And, yes, I would totally love to leave him to it - he's a sweetheart at home, forever pootling off after his sudden inspirations, and being a rather academic sort of family this is all rather cosy & fun - but there is this school problem of the effect of his behaviour on the other children, plus my hope that there may be some (sympathetic) way of grounding him that we've overlooked.

Agree with scummy. Doesn't sound as if there's aproblem from his point of view -- it's not interfering with his learning or enjoyment of life. Medicating in order to fit in with the school sounds a bit extreme...

Don't think he'd stand out in ds's class particularly -- in fact there is a little boy who sounds rather similar, fidgety and sometimes hyper, brilliant at maths but rather impulsive. The school have him doing maths separately as far as possible (he's on Y5 maths, apparently). Last year's teacher had a series of brilliant strategies, so this boy's mum tells me, including sitting the child right by her at times like assembly where he was prone to be unintentionally disruptive, and rhythmically tapping his leg to keep him focussed everytime he wandered off mentally or started fidgetting.

He sounds like a sweetiepie, Bink.:) What kind of disruption are we talking about here? It does sound rather as if there could be an element of the school trying to knock a square peg into a round hole. Hope they appreciate his strengths too- he sounds like he has lots of those.

Disruption - it's impulsive, like frogs's son's classmate (sounds as if I should have a word with that teacher, frogs! - just like ds, including the maths thing) and silly: eg, policeman comes to talk to school about road safety, ds (sat at front of group for the usual monitoring reasons) sticks his foot out (and not just once) to try to trip him. Drifts off in music & starts pulling leads out of the back of the electric piano. It's not throwing chairs stuff, but it does involve lack of respect for boundaries/safety & so on - and means (on a bad day - he does have good ones, just not this week so far) the teachers have to step in every five minutes & over time this takes such a toll.

Oh, and we've never been able to establish a pattern to the good days/bad days - doesn't seem to correlate with anything, amount of sleep or diet or disruption to routine or phases of the moon.

Whenever I hear about children like this it makes me cross that they have to go to school so young in the UK. These imaginative dreamers have the kind of inner life that little children should have - knocking square pegs into round holes, as scummy says, is what the problem is, not them!

He sounds like a very imaginative and lovely boy, Bink.

No advice for you really, because we wonder exactly the same thing about DS1, who is 7.5 in Y3, and not really much connected to this world. He is a hyper and silly type of dreamer, too. DH says he was the same, which is somewhat comforting because DH managed to get good A-levels, a good degree, an interesting job, a wife etc....But he does still lose wallets and passports with tedious regularity.

DS1 tells me that he can't concentrate on literacy and numeracy because his brain is full of too many other interesting things.....We have had the ADHD discussions, too (not that I think DS1 needs medicating, but still....)

Have enjoyed reading the experiences of others.

Bink, at the risk of sounding subversive, you are paying a not inconsiderable amount of money for your child's education. I don't think you need to feel too sorry for the teachers...

Your ds does sound a lot like my ds's classmate, who is also prone to doing irritatingly silly stuff. He will even occasionally still bite other children when he gets overexcited. They are still very little. My dd1 really 'grew into' herself between Y2 and Y5; I'm sure your ds will change a lot over the next few years.

Have emailed dino re. meetup, and copied it to you, btw.

I really wouldn't want to swap my creative, dreamy 5 year old dd1 for a more attentive child. (except regarding getting ready in the mornings). she's very easygoing and charming. my 4 year old dd2 is the opposite, hyper, always interacting madly with teachers and classmates, she does far better at school (at least partly because she listens and concentrates hard, unlike dd1) and receives rave reports from nursery carers and teachers. dd1 may be less suited to conventional school activities but I feel the education system really should adapt rather than change her.

Our school is laid back about it. The teacher told me how dd1 couldn't go in the top maths group because, for example, she spent the lesson lying at the back with legs in the air. I did wonder why they didn't make her sit up and focus, but actually I do appreciate them letting her learn at her own pace.

Bink, I think he sounds bliss and rather like a mixture of my ds1 (hyper, active, impulsive) and ds2 (dreamy, vague and placid)! Can't imagine what it might be like to have them rolled into one person. Surely trying to trip up the policeman is a hilarious thing to do! He knows he's an authority figure, and understands how funny it would be if he fell over!!! I bet he'll prove to be a wildly inventive thinker, brimming with originality and making wild and weird connections - definitely need to keep that for as long as possible and don't let him be sat on too hard by unimaginative, humourless teaching. . .

Bink - I love the sound of his inner life, I was quite a similar child but never dreamt up something so interesting.

But a lot of his behaviour rang bells with me (although from an older age) and so I wonder - particularly because of what you said about the history lesson - whether he was bored?

I'm not the brightest person ever, but I get things quickly, and so was bored for quite a lot of my school life - I was dreamy in my (private) junior school, so that they thought I was stupid and only realised when I was 11 that I had a brain (I then got a scholarship which showed them!). Later on, I also used to read books in lessons, and also misbehave because things were being repeated over and over again.

What finally worked for me was being taken out of lessons for extra maths and English, and basically doing work at my own pace (that's how jr school found out I wasn't thick, set us some tests and then discovered that I'd done more than anyone else in the time!). Don't know if this helps - but it does sound very familliar to me...

Bink I've been following this thread with interest. I'm a regular who's changed her name because I don't want to be recognised.
It's really because of my ds1 that I'm keeping up with your ds's progress. He's now 12 (y8 in a London prep school). The similarities are uncannily close:
dreaminess, creativity, a richly imaginative inner life, distractability, not keeping on track, learning what he's interested in, with a real passion for the offbeat, a fidget (now a bit better but not much; teachers used to call him a "squirmer"), and many other features.

If it helps, I have the following observations from the perspective of a somewhat older child:

• his personality won't change!
• he will realise at some point that he will have to focus, at least to an extent, in order to keep up and pass exams.
• try not to worry; school will have faced far trickier pupils, and I'm sure at least some of your ds's teachers love him the way he is.
• more than one teacher has said to me that my ds will "fly when he's ready" , but at a time of his own choosing.

You're all so incredibly kind, not sure I merit it! But if it's of help to others too, and it might be, seeing as how many people seem to have similar issues ... by the way, the notes in the pocket (which say, eg, "are you doing your best to listen, this very minute?") thing has been the most noticeable help.

He's been lovely as usual this weekend, though this involved appearing in our bedroom at dawn to say "Mummy. What's stamp duty?".