Those of you who use 123 does it work with tantrums or do you ignore?

[MontBlanc]

I've just started magic 123 with 19 month old DS with some success in stopping him doing things I don't want him to do.

If he's having a tantrum and I do it though it just makes the tantrum worse and prolongs it. However, I don't trust myself just to just ignore it without snapping and shouting at him, which I really don't want to resort to having grown up in a 'being yelled at' household.

The main thing he is tantruming over is not getting his own way - if I shut the dishwasher and he wants to pull it open etc.

Any advice would be much appreciated!

hi what is 123 - my DD is just starting the tantrum stage?

Im pretty sure that 123 says to ignore tantrums completely especially at this age. Don't engage until the tantrum is finished. It's very hard to.actually do that though.

gabbas it's a great discipline book I was recommended on here:

www.amazon.co.uk/1-2-3-Magic-Effective-Discipline-Children/dp/1889140163

Helps stop the yelling/shouting cycle that I'm so afraid of getting into.

I think you're right black but I find it so hard to ignore without shouting something or just going 'shhhhhhh' really loudly. Which incidentally doesn't work either

123 will never work with tantrums. Ensure they are in a safe place then you must ignore. If you don't and give attention you will just end up with longer more spectacular tantrums.

Also pick your battles - don't cause tantrums for little gain iyswim. I always try to think before I say no rather than saying no automatically. My dd's then know that if I say no I mean it.

All you can do with a tantrum is ignore and wait until it is over-then you can discuss it, as in 'why were you upset?', why did you think a tantrum would get your own way?' 'how can I understand you and help if you scream etc' 'tell me calmly what you want and I will see if I can do anything about it' etc etc.

loony would you put them in the "time out" place to have the tantrum or just let them have it where they are and ignore?

exotic the Magic 123 book goes against any kind of adult reasoning as it says it just doesn't work. Don't know if I buy into this as 19 month old DS can't really talk so I haven't tried the reasoning route yet..

Does this kind of discipline work with a child so young? DS is 18 months and very much into touching/bashing things he knows he shouldn't but I thought he was too young to really 'get' anything like this.

I'm also interested to see if people consider a tantrum to be a conscious act by a toddler? I can't see the point in 'discussing' it - I feel it's an involuntary reaction to a situation when they feel out of control.

However having said that I'm keen to find a solution to 'bad' behaviour, I also don't want to be a shouty mum!

No idea what 1,2,3 is - but it sounds like something that'd wind me up if i was mid-tantrum! Its not bad behaviour at this age - no need to shout or react. Make sure they are safe, reassure, ignore and then carry on as usual. They grow out of it.

nicecup I thought it wouldn't work and DS was too young, but he does seem to be getting it. Turning the oven on and off was driving me crazy (and was dangerous) and he now stops if he starts touching the buttons and I start counting. I'm hoping he will stop touching the buttons altogether soon!

The book says you can try from 18 months. I'd recommend reading the book and giving it a go. I wanted to get into good habits from the start and it's giving me confidence in discipline as I don't want to end up yelling lots.

I think I probably agree ignoring is the way to go with tantrums though. Not sure about reassuring constant, isn't that giving 'attention' for the tantrum?

Pick your battles.
Ignore what you can.
Count to 3 and STICK to the consequence that you said would happen.
Try a naughty step (maybe too young, I can't remember now)
Use diversion techniques before tantrum really kicks off!

My dd is now 7 and these all worked with varying degrees when she was a monster toddler.
And remember, this too shall pass

If they have a fully blown tantrum there is nothing you can do except let it take it's course and ignore. You can reason afterwards, they may not understand or be capable of it but, however young, they take in that they get attention and you listen when they are calm and able to try and tell you the problem but that throwing a tantrum is pointless because you won't give them any attention and it won't get them what they want.

Montblanc, tantrum where they are unless not safe. If not safe move them and then ignore. I agree with northern, stick to any consequences - never give in to a tantrum!

At 19 months though you want to use distraction as much as possible.

You have to accept that sometimes they will just tantrum! Distraction sometimes works but there are times where they tantrum if you give them a red mug when they wanted blue and if you give them the blue they still tantrum!
Luckily they grow out of it, in time.

Yes I've heard about the blue mug, red mug type scenario where nothing will placate. I fear we are only at the tip of the iceberg with this!

Thanks so much for all the advice, is so useful to get different perspectives and ideas.

I use 123 and ignore the tantrums.

If DS (nearly 23mo) kicks off, I tell him calmly that I don't speak screaming and he needs to calm down. I then ignore him until he's done. However, I do use the 123 if he's having a hitting tantrum - or I move away if possible.

We've been doing it since he was about 19mo and it does work - unless DH gets it wrong (he's a great one for trying to explain!)

I think that northern has the right method, or at least that's what works for us. Tantrums are about control (ie what they can and can't do for themselves) and attention. I try to offer choices as much as possible to give them a sense of control: 'would you like the red cup or the blue cup?', 'Are you ready to leave the park now or would you like three more goes on the slide before we leave?', 'would you like to wear your wellies or your shoes today?' This helps with making them feel in control.

If you still get a tantrum, make sure they are safe, try to react as calmly as possible, continue with whatever you are doing and ignore the tantrum. At this age, after a minute or two I use distraction, generally by reading something aloud, or talking or singing quietly to myself, but not competing for volume. I have found they stop screaming so that they can listen to what you are saying :) once they are reasonably calm again, I give a big cuddle, say well done for calming down, and make sure that I carry on with whatever we were doing (if I've said that we are leaving the park then we leave, distracting by talking about looking out for a doggy or something).

Hunger can be a trigger for tantrums so I always have some little boxes of raisins and cracker biscuits in the change bag too.

Not foolproof, but I find it a pretty reliable way of coping with tantrums. And, if you are in public when it happens, ignore anyone who stares! Parents will have been through it too and won't be phased, and people without children will probably find out all about it one day...

There's a good book called Toddler Training, I think by Christopher Green iirc, it's very sensible advice and funny at the same time. HTH :)

I think 123 is good for behaviour you want to discourage/stop, but in my opinion a trantrum is an expression of feelings (one that kids that age have no real control over). Trying 123 on a tantrum is basically saying 'I want you to switch your feelings off when I get to 3', which isn't a great message to impart.

So I'd say use 123 to get him to stop the behaviour (e.g. touching the dishwasher), but if he then has a meltdown either ignore it and/or do some reflecting of his feelings e.g. "You really wanted to open the dishwasher but you weren't allowed, so now you're upset"

Sorry, but although I have yet to read '1,2,3', from what I've read on this thread it sounds a bit dire!

There's a great post on The Mule last week about tantrums that you may find helpful and I wrote something along the same lines as well on about the same day!

The thing is that tantrums are about big, scary feelings and many ways that books suggest to deal with them don't work or make things worse, or have long-term consequences. The best thing, IME, is to learn about what tantrums really are and then work out what sits best with you. If you're questioning the 123 approach, then it probably isn't the right one - usually when you find the right approach or solution, you can really feel it in your heart.

But the point is that 123 isn't supposed to be used on tantrums. It's a technique for getting children to stop doing bad behaviour such as running off, touching, shouting or whatever.

I would go for distract, ignore then cuddle afterwards with a chat about why I said no (with my dd who is 2.8 but not with an 18mo). But I also pick my battles and try not to say no automatically.

I started counting to 3 when dd1 was about 20 months and went from a darlling to a little bugger more challenging child.

I count to 3 to give her chance to stop doing something and then it is naughty step. Lots of tears on the naughty step at first but she soon realised it got no result and now she sits and says sorry eventually

Tantrums I say something along the lines of "oh dear dd1 is being a silly billy" and walk off. Cue me being stalked by a screaming snotty toddler, but I just keep talking normally until she stops. So ask her if she would like a drink, like to play etc. If she has lost all reason and is lying on the floor I just leave her to it.

My ds is 18 ms. I ignore the tantrum but once he's coming out of it ds comes to me for a cuddle. I give it to him with real warmth. This is not IMO rewarding the tantrum but rightly not punishing him for a flood of emotions he's too young to be able to control.

From what I've read round the subject they're not putting it on at this age to get something they want - it tends instead to be because they're tired/hungry/don't yet have language to express pent-up frustrations. If it seems to be about not getting an ice-cream, therefore, it's not about the ice-cream (and giving them the ice-cream, paradoxically, would be blocking this emotional outlet for them as well as prolonging the tendency to tantrum). I personally find Green's "Toddler Taming" a fairy simplistic book which presents a superficial but, it seems to me, the popular view of how to deal with troublesome toddlers. A lot of it works in practice but that doesn't mean you're teaching your child all the right messages for their future happiness. I did find a lot of good stuff in Tears and Tantrums by Alethea Solter.

123-magic: my dad did a similar thing with us 40 years ago. I think it's about different stuff to tantrums: not emotions, but the situations where they are actively choosing how to behave. In such situations it is reassuring for them to know what the rules are, and by being consistent about them you are providing your child with confidence and less stress and confusion, as well as keeping them safe. I don't think your child is too young for this, as it doesn't involve the whole consequential thinking thing that is behind the naughty step. For some reason counting just works better than not counting because little children are flummoxed into caving in by a time limit! (Hope mine will be, as I haven't tried the counting thing yet).