question for supporters of the tanya byron method of dealing with tantrumy toddlers

[eastendgirl]

Since last Thursday my normally fairly reasonable 2 1/2 year old toddler is having terrible tantrums, anything will set him off, for instance the use of the wrong cup for his milk, asking him to switch the telly off, telling him i cannot pick him up because i am busy etc. I am using the T B methods to deal with it, giving lots of praise, lots of playing, ignoring the screaming, time out if the screaming gets out of hand and I cannot bear, I don't reward and give in to the tantrums. Anyway, today he spent more time having tantrums than being normal, absolutely awful. I also give him lots of warnings when nice things are coming to an end, I encourage him to do stuff by himself, lots of running around in the park, good diet,sleeps lots, around 13/14 hours, etc. How long can I expect this sort of behaviour to go on for, the screaming gets me down, i feel I am being a bad mum to him.

well i think it's party an age thing. you can maybe try and cut them down a bit by giving him plenty of warnings...

ie, "i'm getting your milk now. do you want this cup or this cup (give him just 2 choices)"
that way he CAN'T have a tantrum over it

"i'm busy now but i'll pick you up when i've done X" and DO pick him up so that he learns that when you promise him something it will happen

tell him in advance when things are going to happen... a lot of children don't like sudden changes.
so for example say "it'll be dinner time in 5 minutes... "

he doesn't know how long 5 minutes is but he knows it's going to happen imminently and give him a chance to get his head round it

all kids go through a stage, you just have to be consistant even when you are tired/stressed, he will get the right messages, it shouldnt take too long for him to get the message, probably around a week at his age.

i use tanyas methods for my dd and she is only 16 month, i started at about 10 month when she was crawling, and as a result she doesnt touch the telly etc and if i say no she knows i mean it, she pushes it sometimes but they all do, you just have to keep being consistant and they realise they aint gunna win!!!

good luck!

Hi there, i agree with Tanya and her ways of dealing with things. But i think when you watch her on the tv she is really going overboard with the times outs, because a)she needs immediate results within 5 days and b) she only has 5 days to get the parents in the swing of doing it.

In real life i think yes, her ways to manage behaviour works and i do similar stuff with dd, but you also have to remember its quite healthy for a child to have a tantrum, and if noone is in any danger or coming to any harm, sometimes turning a blind eye can save yourself and your child a lot of stress.

As an example - my dd at 21/2 would sit on our coffee table, i'd ask her to get down. She knew she wasn't supposed to do it and so repeatedly did it to get reaction. I would remove her, time her out, etc etc she would still go back to it, in the end i'd leave the room so she wouldn't know that i knew she was on it. (there was little danger to her, she was so skilled at sitting on the bloody thing!). My dd was looking for the attention and confrontation, so i didn't give it to her, she'd call me into the room, i wouldn't go and eventually she'd get bored and come to see me, i'd immediately step in and praise whatever she did next and give lots of attention.

Sorry that is so waffly but i hope you see what i mean.
I think basically too much discipline can bore a child (no longer have as much meaning for them) and so therefore they'd look for something to do next to make mummy go red and steam.

Actually, i wouldnt give him choices. It sets things up for another argument. Especially if tired.

I would say firmly what you are going to do and stick with it. Any other bad behaviour Ignore ignore ignore.

Between 2 and 3 years of age is a really difficult time as they are starting to discover their own independence and self. Its tough, but as long as you are consistent it will work out fine.

Meant to add, now my dd is three, none of the previous cheekiness and tantrums ever really happen. She is my little mate now, who i hardly ever need to tell off. There is light at the end of the tunnel!

Actually agree with Hattie too - this is the age where they learn about being angry and upset.

It is okay for them to be angry at being told no etc. It should be fine as long as they have a basic explanation as to what is happening and why.

but if you know there will be a tantrum over the cup why bring it on?

why not say "what cup do you want?"
he chooses it, he has drink... no tantrum.

if there is then a tantrum because he wants a different one then yes, stick to it and don't give in... but i don't see the problem with avoiding one by giving choice

I think one day i overdid the time outs, the poor sod ended up spending big part of hte day in his room. Should I mostly ignore his bad behaviour and only time him out for certain specific things? But what things? Violent behaviour? He has not been violent yet, but that might be on the cards. He started throwing things on the floor in a rage, shall I just remove stuff away from him, so there is nothing he can throw on the floor (at least for a while, until we get through this difficult rebellious stage)or do I carry on timing him out. It is very stressfull.

Because at this age its an excuse to muck about. Its all about power struggles and getting you to do what they want. And yet, they dont fully understand and choice is like a key to opening another tantrum. My DD does all the time. She is much calmer if i just tell her "we are doing x because of x".

If you give a choice 9 times out of 10 they actually want both. You are the parent, you make the decisions. Sod arsing about with bloody choosing cups each time.

The thing is my ds only owns one cup, so no choice for him.

Ignore tantrums. Dont time out for tantrums alone. Not worth it. If you walk away from a tantrum they will usually stop to follow you. Particularly if you are doing something over the top or daft or unusual.

Ignore and distraction. Time out for deliberate bad behaviour after a warning first.

Well....i did time out on the bottom step. Because i didn't want dd to dislike her bedroom if she was 'shut' in there.

I only did this if she had hurt anyone, been rude to me or if she deliberately did something that was potentially dangerous like climb on the dining room table which is more dangerous than the coffee table!
When we first introduced the step, i probably used it a once a day or so, then it got less frequent and towards the end of this stage she was at, she would go and sit herself there once she had dones something naughty .

Other things like her ignoring my request for her to get dressed or something, i would say ok, you stay here and i'll go out to the park on my own. Walk to the door with the keys in my hand and she'd be behind me begging me to dress her .

I think with cups and bowls etc, she can open and help herself to those, so i've always said get a cup out, whilst i go and get the milk out the fridge. So in a way its avoiding any tantrums.

Reading your last post eastend girl, does he throw things on the floor as a reaction to being told off? If thats the case i'd try a different technique, provided he hasn't already been violent. If hes doing something you are not happy with, i'd say "well i won't play with you if you're going to do that". Turn your back, walk into another room and busy yourself for a while. If he comes crying after you, get down to his level and say "Mummy will talk to you when you've stopped making that noise". Continue to busy yourself until he stops - then give praise and attention. If he doesn't stop, give him a warning that he'll have to sit on the step or whatever, and carry that out if he still doesn't stop.

The key is to remain calm, show that you are not bothered and have other things to do whilst he creates.

don't agree there vvv.
i used to look after 6 kids (eldest was 6 when i started)so have had 4 of them through toddler age and I found it much, much easier to just say pick a cup and give them a drink, than to make them drinks and then deal with a huge tantrum.

I think it's important for children to learn that they can affect things and that they are allowed a choice in some things. it shouldn't all be "i'm in charge and you do as I say"

eastendgirl I think you need to pick your battles.
as others have said, the tantruming IS a phase, and it is something they have to go through. you can't get rid of them, but you can minimise it.

if he throws things in a rage then just pick it up and ignore him.
time out maybe if he is throwing things at you, or throwing things that might break or hurt him... otherwise just ignore

Problem we have is ds and dd are allowed to pick cups/bowls etc but they always want the same ones aargh! :)

Agree starlover.

I know it is terribly inconvenient sometimes, but if little people want something, I will try to oblige. It is the biggies, like safety, anti-social issues that they will just have to tantrum. I tell dd (mid-trantrum when she is not getting her way) that she can lie down in the middle of the living room floor and cry. I will put her there if it gets too much - then walk off. But she is not obliged to stay there. After 5 minutes of hysterical crying (she is not generally one to calm down), I will go to cuddle her and explain again the reasons for why I could not let her have what she wants, soothe and pat her until she is fine. They are entitled to their strong feelings when thwarted. But at this age, they are also just learning to control their emotions and need your help.

Dd is now 2.5 years and on rare occasions, will accept my explanation, calm down by herself, saying "stop crying", "happy now" or "better". She is already making progress!

Thank you for reminding me to keep calm.

Don't agree about giving cuddles after a tantrum, I think it is important to explain what has happened and still be quite stern,I think cuddles would be perceived as a reward.
I agree about giving choices, but only about things that are not a big deal. I am not going to introduce a choice of cups for my ds tomorrow, otherwise he is going to think that the awful tantrums he has subjected us to have been successfull, and he will never stop having tantrums. But I will give him more choice about other things, to make him feel more independent and get a better sense of self.
Tantrums are a phase, but if we give in to them, we are going to have 10 year olds who think they can have what they want every time they scream. Sorry about the English, not my first language.

Your English is great!

I agree cuddles not good as result of tantrum. But i think saying positive reinforcement is vital when you have seen your child behaviour improve.

So if your son is crying at you after you have told him not to do something, you tell him to calm down and then you will play with him. When he does eventually stop crying, you can say well done and now lets go and play!

It sounds to me like you are doing the right thing. It's the hard way though. I'd just get yourself used to the fact that this could be tough for the next year or so! IME, the '3s' are worse than the '2s' - gets better after that - the better the language gets the better I find (I've got 3 boys).

just wondered... is he ok in himself... he's not comming down with anything is he...

The first sign I had of my kids being ill was that suddenly they were little 'mares'

If you see things in the context of a relationship between yourself and your child, then when your child is upset, justifiably or not, you go to him/her. What could be more natural than that? Hence, the cuddles for tantrums. It does not mean that I am going to give in to the denied request that brought about the tantrum. I am just cuddling to soothe the hurt feelings. Like I said, toddlers need your help to understand why they are upset and your help to calm down again. They are frightened and bewildered by their strong emotions.

But then again, my dd is an intense emotional baby and toddler, who could never self-soothe, who could easily cry herself sick and totally lose the plot. Fairplay to those of you whose little ones know how to calm themselves down or cry themselves out after a brief period of being ignored. I'd like one of those .

I don't think cuddles will be perceived as a reward for tantrums. Unless you don't cuddle or give attention in normal situations, why should children play up to get your attention?

choices go something like this is our house: ds is 2.4

mommy - would you like the blue cup or the red cup?
ds - the red cup please
ds waits for milk to be poured.
ds - no the yellow cup (note not even one of the choices!)(starts to cry and whine - ds that is not me!)
mommy - You've got the red cup.
ds - me no want the red cup (cry, whine) me want the yellow cup (more crying etc)
mommy - (in calm not bothered voice) your milk is there on the table when you want it, if you don't want it thats fine
ds - takes cup (presumably he's learnt I'm not really bothered if he has it or not and the tears don't work either)

To be honest I find these little charades that we act out every day kinda amusing

I always cuddle after a tantrum

I think having a tantrum must be quite frightening actually

I give a cuddle after a tantrum if DD wants one or comes to me for one.

Why refuse affection? Dont think its beneficial.

I agree that its frightening for them - as i said before this stage is about them learning to deal with anger and rage at an age when they are also still learning to communicate.