Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

Flip

Original poster

Is my toddler trying to kill my baby?

21 replies

glamourcats · 22/08/2012 19:49

I'm hoping somebody can give me some advice. I have two ds, 2.11yrs old and 8 months old and am at the end of my tether. ds1 is constantly trying to hurt/smoother/squash ds2. It's gotten to the point now when I can't even leave the room to go to the bathroom.

Examples are:
DS1 will crawl into ds2 cot in the morning (they share a room) and cover his head with blankets, soft toys, anything he can find really

Ds2 has started to pull himself up on the sofa. As soon as ds1 see's this he runs over and pushes ds2 down with force

I often return to the room to find scratch marks, bite marks on ds2, or that ds2 has been smoothered with toys cushions etc. Or ds1 is lying on top of ds2 looking like he his trying to squash him. I only leave them alone to have a wee, grab a bib, quickly make a sandwich etc but as soon as i'm gone you can guarantee within thirty seconds ds2 will start screaming because ds1 has done something.

Ds1 will stand on ds2 hands as he casually walks past, wont share any toys or let ds2 hold anything in his hand. Everything gets snatched out of his hands even if they are ds2 own toys.

I have tried the naughty corner, rewarding good behaviour and ignoring bad, taking toys away, shouting, but nothing seems to work. I feel like everything I say goes in one ear and out the other. Last ds1 told me about how he stood on a spider and squashed it....his exact words were ''I broke a spider mummy, I kill it.....can I kill (ds2) now?'' Is this normal???

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

JeuxDEnfants · 22/08/2012 19:58

Could he being doing it for attention?

VivaLeBeaver · 22/08/2012 20:10

Oh dear. Separating them at night might be an idea as obviously you can't keep an eye on them then.

Sounds like its a bit of jealously. Similar age gap between me and my brother and from what you describe my brother was a bit like this towards me. My mum said he was fine until I started crawling and that's when the problems started. He didn't like me making a move for his toys, etc. can you try and find times when you can have some time alone with your eldest?

discrete · 22/08/2012 20:18

I was like that with my younger siblings. I really did try to kill them at any available opportunity.

Not PC these days, but the only thing that worked was my father hitting me! He was the most incredibly gentle person, and that was the only time in my life he even raised his voice at me, which is probably why it left an impression (I had pushed my just about crawling down the stairs brother all the way down from the top of the stairs).

You need to make it incredibly clear to him just how upsetting you find his behaviour (not suggesting you spank him though!). I just couldn't see the problem. Had pesky siblings - get rid of pesky siblings. Easy. It had to be drummed into me that this was NOT OK.

Norem · 22/08/2012 20:24

Glamourcats I sympathise your elder ds is obviously very upset about having a sibling.
I would do two things firstly reduce the opportunity for harm, take one of them with you everywhere, bathroom, kitchen ect even for very short trips.
A stair gate between the two rooms you use most can be helpful, a playpen too.
Can you separate them at night? Even moving the cot into the living room when you go to bed or using a travel cot after the last feed?
Secondly try and show your toddler how to play with the baby gently, modelling it yourself in a very repetitive way praising every single nice interaction.
Do you get out of the house every day? I find a lot of fighty behaviours happen here when they feel a bit penned in/ bored.
Good luck :)

Original poster

glamourcats · 22/08/2012 21:16

Thanks for the replies. I guess it could be down to ds1 wanting more attention, but sometimes when I spend time playing with him and ds2 is on the floor on the other side of the room minding his own business ds1 will suddenly get up, snatch his toy away/push him over etc. I tell him off...he knows its naughty, sometimes cries and says sorry to ds2 but then 5 minutes later he's doing it again.

I will try seperating them at night and making sure I get out of the house every day so thank you for these suggestions. It's just so sad they don't get on. I can see by ds2s face that he really loves his older brother and just wants to play with him and he just keeps getting knocked back (literally!). And it's getting me down that I seem to spend most of the day telling ds1 off

OP posts:

VivaLeBeaver · 22/08/2012 21:19

I'm sure things will be better when the youngest can play and is more interesting to a toddler!

choceyes · 22/08/2012 21:27

I don't really know what to suggest because I haven't managed to find z solution either. Mine, now 3.8yrs and 2yrs are still like this. The older one constantly trying to wind up the younger one and now it's the other way too, dc2 now scratching and hurtibg dc1. I have had 2yrs of it and it is very stressful when they are together.

giraffesCantGoBackToSchool · 22/08/2012 21:30

sometimes when you get in to a rut like that where they are always playing up and as you said you spend all your time telling them off then they get ina rut with it too.

Try and have a day where he cannot get near him for a second, not a single touch....and praise, praise, praise him for being so nice, so kind, so good, so clever, you are so pleased with him and because he is so good you can do XYZ with him. Get someone else to help you with this if you can. Break the cycle a bit?

Hassled · 22/08/2012 21:31

Is there any way you can arrange some quality time alone with DS1? It does sound like he is very, very jealous (certainly more than I've experienced with my 4) and some one-to-one time might help remind him that you still think he's special and lovely etc. And yes - break the cycle. If you need to take the baby with you to wee, you'll just have to do that until DS1 forgets that his mission is to maim, IYSWIM. It's a pattern of behaviour that you need to interrupt, while boosting DS1 so there's no reason for him to be jealous.

MousyMouse · 22/08/2012 21:33

unfortunately this is quite common, only solution is to never ever leave them in a room on their own together.
I had this same situation and age gap when working as a nanny, had to take baby to the toilet with me.
the older child did the same as you describe and it was enormously stressful. they had to be closly supervised as real damage could have been done.

MothershipG · 22/08/2012 21:33

I read something which helped us...you need to make the baby a source of positive attention for the older child. So you need to 'talk up' the older child to the baby eg 'Baby, you're so lucky to have such a smart/fast/helpful big bro' and if he does something even vaguely positive for the baby make a big deal "Look, baby, you're big bro has just done whatever it is, isn't he just the best big bro? And repeat ad nauseum

Although in our case it seemed to be more carelessness that dislike, but it did seem to help a bit.

PlaguegroupGermnastics · 22/08/2012 21:56

DS1 was just like this, starting when DS2 learnt how to sit up, DS2 hardly ever slept and so it was impossible to cook/clean/do anything ever. I used to make lunch with him on my back, in the patapum, as it was the only way I could do it and keep him safe.

DS1 had been a very gentle child up to that point, but he was really, truly awful for a little while. As well as attacking DS2 he also got into trouble for pushing other children at preschool, pulled hair and snatched toys at playgroup. It made me wonder if we'd ruined his life and changed his temperament forever by having a DC2.

The good news is it was all just a phase, I think 2.6 - 3.6 is quite a difficult time, it still seems to have been for my friends with 1 child, so without the sibling rivalry, throwing a little brother into the mix just makes it much more complicated. Things didn't change overnight but DS1 started doing much better at home and preschool when he was around 3.6. They're now 4 and 18 months and spend most of their time following each other round and laughing, it's great to see. There is still a bit of pushing, shoving and toy grabbing (as between any siblings) but it's definitely outweighed by the fun bits!

mummyofmystery · 22/08/2012 21:58

Its a phase, honestly it will pass, mine went through it, I literally used to starve until DH came home from work going out helps, a lot.

These days, they top and tail in the same bed because they cant bear to be parted.

princelypurpleparrot · 22/08/2012 22:13

Will watch this with interest as I have exactly the same problem. Mine are 2.10 and just 10mo, and DS1 terrorises DS1 . His behaviour is generally bad at the moment, and we've had incidents at nursery since DS2 was born too.

We've also tried all the things that you have, and nothing has worked. At the moment we're confiscating toys which really upsets him but makes no difference to his behaviour.

He's been like this since DS2 was born but its getting worse now as the baby can now walk and grabs DS1's toys, pulls up his train tracks etc. I really feel for DS1 and try and explain why the baby does these things, try to get him to give him alternative toys.

I spend time alone with DS1 when I can and he loves this but it's hard to do this all the time. And I don't leave them alone together, I usually take DS2 with me to the loo / to have a shower.

I think that DS1 does love his little brother, he always wants to see him as soon as he gets up. But then things get violent....

I feel your pain!

Original poster

glamourcats · 22/08/2012 22:18

Ok well it's good to know that this is just a phase and that other people have experienced the same thing. choceyes I really feel for you...i don't think I could cope with 2 years of this. Some more good suggestions made. I think I will try to arrange someone to have the baby so I can take ds1 out for the day. Now I think about it I have realised that I have not spent very much one to one time with him these past few months so hopefully this will help. giraffe and mothership I will try your suggestions too. Thanks everyone for your help

OP posts:

mummyofmystery · 22/08/2012 22:22

Also I think when baby sleeps, you need to do things with DS, rather than housework, I had a year when I literally got nothing done except washing when they were in bed.

Its hard but it passes, I put older one on PG 3 hours a day twice a week as well, which they loved, when they hit 3.

amothersplaceisinthewrong · 22/08/2012 22:26

My two were rather like this although I never took anyone to the toilet with me. I did end up putting the baby with a childminder for half a day each week so I could spend time with DS on his own.

HappyCamel · 22/08/2012 22:27

I think picking one very firm and consistent form of discipline and using it every time he hurts ds2 would be good. It sounds like you've tried lots which is understandable but ultimately confusing for him. I think the naughty step, 1 min for ever year of their age works. Do make sure you get one on one time with ds1, every day, if possible and give loads of praise for anything nice he does.

It will pass but as you know, you need to protect ds2 in the meantime. It sounds like ds1 is very, very jealous. All the best, mine are younger so I'm waiting for this to kick off in my house.

stinkymice · 22/08/2012 22:40

I would be very careful what you say in front of DS1 about his behavior. What he said about the spider and can I kill DS2 now sounds like he might have heard that from an adult first then repeated it. Hearing stuff like this, even if said in exasperation(eg,please just stop trying to kill your brother agh!) ,will do more to positively reinforce the behavior than stop it.

SaffronCake · 23/08/2012 22:10

No advice, but lots of sympathy. My two are 22m and 10m and the bigger girl can be mean to the baby, but nothing as efficient as your two and I really feel for you there. Good luck.

SaffronCake · 23/08/2012 22:17

Oh actually, on a more careful think through... I leave the room for a bib and I get my "big helpful girl" to "help" me. It's amazing what Mummy needs help with, like that pesky bathroom door lock I can't manage on my own, and finding the right bib (as chosen by 22m/o) and so on. It tend to change the scene when she is feeling smacky (she usually just hits her sister). I don't know if it's wrth a go, but it didn't hurt me to type it, just in case.

Flip