why don't my boys give a sh#t?

[shimmy21]

Serious question actually. When would you expect children to have some empathy with other people?

Last night dh learnt that his dad has had a serious stroke and we spent the night urgently finding him a flight to travel to see his father very possibly for the last time (lives in another country.)

Dh is not surprisingly emotionally wrecked and weepy. Ds 1 and 2 (7 and 9) have reacted with total lack of concern for dh. They don't know their grandfather very well so their lack of concern for him is not surprising BUT in spite of me explaining very clearly that their dad is very sad and very worried because his father might be dying they have behaved as if nothing at all has happened e.g. pestering dh to give them piggy backs, the usual silly boys jokes about bottoms and ds1 even said to dh 'I hope you don't come back' when dh left this morning for the airport because he (ds) thought it was funny. This behaviour was in spite of me taking them to one side several times and saying that dh and I were feeling very sad so now is not the right time for jokes - it's time to be kind by helping with best behaviour etc etc.
TBH I'm shocked and upset by their callousness. I really didn't expect them to 'understand' grief and adult emotions but at 9 I expected at least ds1 to make an effort when it was pointed out to him.

Am I expecting too much from them or am I rearing a pair of sociopaths???

my girls wouldnt either, they have little comprehension of what it entails. And even though youve told them they still wont quite "get" it.
I know exactly what you mean though.
Didnt want to let this slip of the page x

thanks cc

no i think their behvaiour was very bad
think a long hard look at emotional intellgience is claled fro
minewoudl be distraught tos ee their dad upset
ok only mayueb for an hour or so but a biref reminder wodul normally put hem right

fro a 9 year old htat ir remarkably badly behaved

Is it possible, in an odd sort of way, that your sons may be doing the right thing? You may feel that their behaviour is unseemly (and I'm sure I would if it were my children behaving like that), but how is your husband reacting to it? Could it be that bottom jokes and piggybacks may be helping to keep life at least partly normal? Your sons being subdued and treading on eggshells around their father might upset him more.

They may not know their grandfather, but they will surely be affected by the atmosphere around them. The jokes may be their way of trying to improve matters; it is possible that they are not being callous, but just trying to cheer their parents up.

and he only found out last ngiht?
thye coudlnt managae a morning?
id rea hte riot act

Yep, thats what I thought, they are trying in thier own way to cheer him up and make him have a joke and a laugh as thats the dad they are used to and would like back instead of the weepy one.

Cod, I did read the riot act after dh had left. I didn't want to make things worse for him while he was there and he didn't want an issue made of it. Ds1 was very sheepish but too late.

I agree too that it may well have been a coping mechanism. They behave in the same way when they are shy (lots of inappropriate rudeness and horseplay).

Ok, so can you 'teach' empathy? I had thought that a clear explanation of what behaviour is needed would be enough but clearly not.

I'm but I don't have 7 and 9 yr old so don't know what to expect. I think I'd expect appropriate behaviour though, especially once you'd explained.

Ds1 is only 4 and is being fantastic with his friend at school whose father died, very suddenly and unexpectedly, last week. He's been talking to me about it and understands and is surprisingly 'grown up' about it. He didn't know his friends Dad but understands enough to accept how sad his friend is.

Sorry, I don't want to make you feel bad but I'm totally shocked. I suppose they could just not know how to handle it....

Shimmy, my Dad died when my older DD was 4. She was really concerned for me (2yo didn't give a toss obv) and tried really hard to say helpful things like 'You still have us mummy' and the slightly less helpful 'it's ok, he won't be dead tomorrow'.

So yes, I would be a tad concerned about your boys reaction and give them a(nother) serious talking to

sorry FB but lol
thats ,ust ahev been tough

poor old you shimmy
have they see either of you hurt or offended before
i sometiems do a reatehr over dramatused " you haev hurt my feelings" routine so they are prefecltyl clear whats oing on
i htink also chats after events that upset peoeple putting them int he person shoes are really good

My plan of action -

1. talk to them tonight about how dh must have been feeling (put themselves in his shoes)
2. ask them to suggest something they could do or say to dh on the phone or email to him to show how much they really care
3. in the future do a lot more talking about 'how do you think he/she feels about whatever and how could you help

anything else?

Shimmy, you sound lovely and you have a good plan.

Good luck.

that sounds great
fb hope havent offended but thast so a typical kid comment

thanks

Mine are 4 and 2 so I don't know what they'll be like at 7 and 9, but on the face of it your dss' reaction does sound a bit unpleasant.

When I am sad, ds1 will try to make me feel better - if he's in the mood.

By the age of 7 and 9 I would imagine children are much more under the influence of peer pressure so that might also be a factor. And, as others have said, this behaviour might be their way of coping with the unexpected. Don't want to be too much of a crackpot psychologist but perhaps it's frightened them that such things can happen to fathers.

Good luck shimmy and very sorry to hear about your FIL. Agree with others here that your plan of action sounds good, and necessary. Ds became aware at about 3.5 that his paternal grandpa was not on the scene - died very young in very upsetting circumstances and left a long shadow over dh's childhood :(. He made him a robot daddy out of boxes etc and has often expressed sympathy for dh and sadness about the whole situation.
Agree with cod that being explicit with young children about sadness and trauma is OK provided you explain, answer questions and be patient. Ds learned the hard way about this when we had a stillbirth, but it has made him sensitive and sympathetic to others' feelings.

Cod, no offence. She said that to me about 12 hours after he died and I had to smile even then.

My dad would've roared if he'd heard it.

Blimey, I was just about to come on ehre and say "oh my boys don't care about stuff either, it's a nightmare isn't it blah blah blah" but then I read it all and I'm shocked!
At 7 and especially 9 that is way beyond bad IMO. I would have gone mad and they would have been trying everything they could to put their wrong right again.

God, shimmy sorry to be so blunt at this sad time for you but that's awful. I hope they have a very good apology for their Dad tonight.

(alos I'd make them phone him, not send an email)

put them in that situation.

ask them how they would feel

they will say very sad

you then say -thats how dad feels.