Short term solutions for 7 year old? - please help, need to get through this weekend

[GotMyLittleLamb]

so, simply o wise mumsnetters I really need some help for some solutions to get me through this weekend with my 7 year old niece whose behaviour is appalling.

To avoid drip feeding, some background - DNiece lives with my mil and has since she was 2 (her grandma) in Cyprus and has contact with her parents about 3 times a year at the moment. We live in the UK and she is here for a three week visit with pil. She is now 7 and between the ages of 2 and 5 we had a lot of contact with her (most weekends) but since they moved to Cyprus 2 years ago, we have seen her twice.

She has, understandably for the most part got some issues, she doesn't read or write any english as she attends a greek speaking school in Cyprus which I think she finds fustrating, although she doesn't really read or write any greek either. She has ADHD which isn't managed especially well.

If I saw her more or she was my DD I would want things to change, she has very little discipline and is spoilt rotten, she's not so I really just need to get through this weekend.

We now have her until Monday, my mil is visiting some friends and we thought it would be nice to see her and let her get to know my 6 week old DD (whom she refers to as 'her sister' to give an idea of how she sees our relationship).

Since she got her we have had temper tantrum after temper tamtrum, if she does something wrong she behaves as though it is your fault and yells at you or tells you, your 'bullying her' she has continually called me, DH and DD stupid, idiots, mean, horrible. She just spilt her drink and didnt say anything, just sitting in it until DH noticed, when he asked her if she spilt it, very calmly (her jeans were soaked so she defo knew) she stormed off upstairs and said he was mean to her. We took her to a local family fun day with lots of craft stalls and food and some childrens rides in the local park, we said she could go on 2 rides and that it was up to her which ones, after those she asked for more, we said no and she threatened to 'batter' us and stormed off like a little teenager.

I think I probably have quite high expectations, but I cant see that some of the things she is doing are normal or acceptable.

I have tried to understand her and talk to her rationally, she had a bit of a rubbish morning, mil told us in front of her that her father had beat up her mother last week, she clearly knows what we were talking about.

However, nothing works, naughty steps/time outs don't have any impact, explaining things doesnt, bribary does for a short time but not really. How can I deal with her, any easy strategies that anyone can suggest? I know she needs a long term approach but I can't be the one that puts it in place. Or are my expectations too high? is this normal 7 year old behaviour and I have it all to come with DD? I would just love 10 minutes of normality or playing with no tantrums or threats.

And thank you to anyone who made it through that.

Haven't got any experience and can't really offer any help, just didn't want you to go unanswered.

Have got a 7yo DS and he does not behave like this and wouldn't say her behaviour is normal, but sounds like she has had a challenging time.

Hopefully someone will come along soon.

Hi jilted thanks, thats actually really reassuring. It doesn't sit right with me, but I don't have any experience of older children. Was really starting to panic about DD.

Should have added, her behaviour is awful all the time, not just with us, just struggling to cope. I want to take her out and do nice things with her but i'm not sure she 'deserves' it. And I feel like im giving her the wrong message.

Since I have posted she has sat and watched Doctor Who with barely one cross word typical though!!

You poor thing - sounds like this weekend is going to be tough. In my (very limited) experience the one thing which really seems to bother a 7 year old is totally ignoring them, especially when the ignoring goes on whilst the rest of the family are having a really great time (you may have to fake this good time or set it up even if you really don't feel like it) E.g all playing a game whilst the whining and mean words are totally ignored. It sort of takes away their power - which is really to provoke a response from you and get more attention. Then give attention, praise etc. when the child has calmed down. It is the only thing which "works" for our also quite badly behaved six year old. She HATES it and also consciously faking being calm and happy means that we can stay calmer (does not always work of course!!!) and also give our other dd some attention. If she does attention grabbing stuff during this time (our dd 6 has threatened to break stuff during these bad tantrums), then just calmly remove with no eye contact. The end result for us is usually a genuine sorry and a desire to be included again. However it can take a long time (hours not minutes) so good luck,

popsy right, that sounds like something practical we can do. I imagine she will hate it so it may get a result. Its such a shame, in the 10 minutes before the next tantrum she is funny and lovely and sweet and then it starts again....

Interesting that you use the term 'genuine apology', it feels like 'sorry' is her favourite word but its always closely followed by 'and can I have'. She sulkily said 'sorry', 'I said sorry, now can I have some sweets'. Drives me mental, no you cant have bloody sweets!!

In the short term, as you have said, there's not much you can do. As much as it feels silly, making a big fuss over positive behavior and ignoring the bad, as much as possible will usually help. So well done DN for sitting nicely watching Dr. Who, you're such a good girl. Can you pass me a nappy... Oh you're a fantastic helper blah blah blah.

Do you know from your Mil if this is typical behaviour?

Sounds a very difficult situation. Don't know what to advise. Maybe tell her that you are so pleased that she is staying with you, and that you want it to be a wonderful, fun few days. But, in order for that to happen you will need her help - which means no arguments/tantrums, etc. Tell her what sort of behaviour you expect from her, and hope that she can rise to the occasion. And praise her to the skies when she behaves well.

If that doesn't work, I'd probably just plant her in front of the telly to keep the peace tbh. She's not with you long enough for there to be any progress made in changing her behaviour. It sounds a very sad and difficult situation for this poor girl.

voldemorts yep, that makes perfect sense and we have been trying to compliment her but its like positive words don't mean anything. So we say she is good or has done something good and she just looks a bit disinterested and shrugs (I wish I could put up a video, her mannerisms are so 'teenage'). I honestly think that she doesn't care if people say she is good or bad because the outcome is the same, she gets spoilt. Will continue to try though.

This is related to her lack of consistency and I am liable to go into a huge rant, so will stop here.

I imagine she feels very confused and possibly has low self esteem. She is very lucky to have you and people who love her but sadly is old enough to know it isn't her own parents. I would echo Voldemort with lots of praise and reassurance.

I can see ignoring would be effective in a more regular household but might just affirm any feelings of self doubt in this situation?

Sometimes when talking leads to arguing, other ways of communicating are easier - drawing, writing, sandbox, fussbox? Good luck x

earlybird yes, this is typical behaviour but I think I had underestimated just how bad it had gotten. We all did a group pinky promise that we would be good and not grumpy so we could have a brilliant weekend and we very nearly didn't make it to the park at the end of the road it was forgotten so quickly.

See post above, her response to positive reinforcement just seems, well strange, to me.

Doctor Who DVD's are my friend I think....

hi jolly thanks for your response, can I ask what is sandbox or fussbox? She doesn't have the attention span to draw for long and gets bored easily, she can't write in English unfortunately.

Would she like to write in English? Would some of those activity books or writing/reading some useful words help her? What does she want to do?

I feel so sorry for her. I can't imagine being in a country and not being able to communicate properly and then going home to visit and not being able to do it there either.

I hope it gets better for you.

hi ohno I don't think so, we bought her activity books with wipe clean pages to learn to write and she pushed them away and says 'I can't do it'. She has had tutors in Cyprus but she doesn't get anywhere with them, she can speak both languages fairly well.

She says 'dunno' if you ask her what she wants to do. She does seem relatively happy watching doctor who, this is the calmest she has been all day. It doesn't seem like the best use of our time watching TV but it has been nice to have a break.

Right. You are not going to make any inroads into improving her behaviour in the space of a weekend. However, you may be able to shape her behaviour in order for you to get through in one piece.

Break the time you have down into blocks and you decide what she will be doing in the blocks.

What is she rewarded/ motivated by and how long can she delay gratification to get it? For example- is she motivated by food and can she control herself for 30, 60, 90mins to get it?

Plan in short activity--> reward. Tell her if she is 'good' (don't like that word but she will probaly 'get' it) for x she will get y. E.g:

'x' Park: walk round the pond, play football for 20mins, play on playground for 20mins.
'y' Icecream.

'x' Baking: Walk to shop, buy ingredients, walk back, make cake. Watch TV
'y' Eat cake.

I would ignore behaviour you can, but where you can't say 'To get your icecream after this you need to talk politely now' etc.

Draw the 'timetable' for each 'chunk' out in pictures for her so she can see what is going to happen. Possibly give some limited choice- so we are going to go to the park and make a cake, which do you want to do first?'

I have to go and put DS to bed. I do on the spot type behaviour management quite regularly (observation and assessment of chn undergoing statementing for EBD) so PM me if you want!

maybe post in Foster care ? We only foster newborns so unfortunately can't help myself, but I know that the respite foster carers (weekends/holidays) will have lots of words of wisdom in coping with troubled children ...

I don't think you need worry about your own DD as setting boundaries and being consistent within a loving environment will see you through most things!

Poor thing has been wrenched away from everything she knows and everyone she loves - and has had to cope with a new country , new "parents" and hearing that her mother is being beaten up. She is only 7 - but is obviously trying to be as "adult" (teenage) about her new situation as possible. It might feel like you are "rewarding" her bad behaviour, but I would take a deep breath and be as loving & patient and kind as I could muster throughout each tantrum, and remember that she is probably just trying to cope with yet another new situation.....

She is obviously thinks a lot of you if she is calling your DD her "sister"

Ok so how about asking what she likes about dr who? And build some activities around tgat? Would she like to try and read a doctor who annual? Would she like some help to write her own story about doctor who? Would she like to build a tardis out of a box and paint it?

Btw I think not being able to read will have started to affect her now, have you spoken to mil about it?

goGB that has been incredibly helpful thank you. I am going to actually write a timetable for tomorrow. She will be fine for a very short time if you remind her about the reward.

On phone - just going to re-read and reply

purple thanks, I know I shouldn't worry but I'm not sure I could cope with this for very long. I really try and see things from her point of view and it must be so difficult for her.

ohno Oooh yes, I actually think DH would quite like to build a tardis too :)

The learning to read English is a huge sore point between mil and me. Probably best I don't go into it but yes I have spoken to her about it. TBH DNeice says she doesn't want to and has on occasion hit tutors and teachers when trying to be taught English, its difficult to find an approach that works, especially when she is learning written English as a second language.

Sorry, went to put kids to bed.

Sandbox is just like a litter tray sized tray with sand in then you can draw shapes or make patterns, or put stones in it etc.

Fussbox is a bit cardboard box, say if you have had a freezer delivered etc. or a couple stuck together to make one. Make a door, put a cushion in if you want, then offer it to the person who needs to vent. They can go in and punch or just get away from everyone, draw on the walls etc.

Some great advice on here from people, hope it all helps.

Sorry, BIG cardboard box.

Thank you so much for your help last night, we got through last night with only a few tamtrums and hysterics. However, today has been a nightmare, tried loads of the things suggested, tardis making was foiled when DH was 'stupid' and she wasn't allowed to use the knife he was cutting some of the materials for. Cake making went wrong when I asked her not to eat the icing before it made it onto the cake (after she had licked out the mixing bowl).

We are surviving, but only just.

However - i think I'm going to make a new thread but just in case anyone checks this one, but, am I being really PFB or could the constant hysterics, yelling, screaming and shouting, not to mentioned DH and I being ridiculously stressed be affecting DD, can they sense things like this? She has been really unsettled and hasn't napped like normal, yesterday I thought it was just 'one of those things' but I cant help feeling this is really bad for her.

I mainly ask because (and written down I actually cant believe its true) we have agreed to go away next week with her and mil to the coast for a WHOLE WEEK. I'm not sure my mental health is up to it but if its affecting DD then im just not going, I dont care what the fall out is.

even if you think I am being really PFB then please tell me i'm not so I have an excuse not to go

Perhaps someone can advise who knows about ADhD. Because as much as everyone wants to put all her behaviour down to brattishness and lack of discipline, ADHD is a serious condition and can cause serious behavioural issues which need to be managed differently.

I must also point out that it can be quite hard to discipline a child with ADHD so I wouldn't judge the parents too harshly in that respect