What is the difference between reciting numbers and counting?

[firstimeforeverything]

So my 20mo has a real thing for numbers. He's been able to recognise the numbers 0-10 for a few months now, and he's able to recite the numbers in sequence and likes to wonder around saying them to himself.

But I think he may have started to count. If I ask him 'how many?' he points and say 'waa, doo, tee...'. He can currently do up to 5 objects and adds another number in sequence every couple of days.

Is this true counting? Every so often I ask him 'how many' and he responds immediately with the number 'one' or 'two' rather than counting up 'one, two, three'. This is what has made me wonder...does anyone have any experience with this?

My ds1 has an aptitude for numbers. He's 4 and can count up to 1000 count in 2s and 10s and do simple addition and subtraction (exam

Sorry posted too soon, example he takes a pack of 4 yogurts out of the fridge, breaks off one to eat and will immediately say 3 left). It is certainly possible that your child is counting. It's not common, on my ds school visit he amazed both the head and his soon to be reception teacher but he just loves numbers and by age 8 things like this usually even out so I'm not counting on an Oxbridge maths degree just yet :)

Sounds like my DD (17mo). She'll do one to ten parrot fashion but if you ask her how many she'll say EIGHT! really aggressively.

The thing to look for is that one to one correspondance, so if you put four smarties down and get them to count them, they know that each one is only counted once.

It is important though (if you actually want to be sure) that they can do this trick with another person, out of your sight, or in a way in which you don't know the answer. Many animals have been thought to be able to count only for it to emerge that they were relying on very subtle, often unconscious body language. So for example if you are counting along with them the pattern of your voice might go up towards the end, so the one before the last is said a bit higher than the previous ones, and the last one higher still, the animal / child learns that the one before the end is a cue to begin to finish counting. If you are silent and the child/animal is doing it themselves, e.g. a dog might tap it's paw then the parent/owner has been known to hold their breath and then as a subconscious sign exhale when the last number is said/tapped. It is still a remarkable skill in observation, but not true counting. Coming out with the right answer straight away could be more evidence, but it depends on how the question is asked and whether there is a chance of the child getting a verbal or visual clue from the parent, so if you said 'are there one or two?' then you might put an ever so subtlely stronger emphasis on the correct answer. Certainly the ability to detect these micro signs is there in animals which when tested show no true number knowledge. You should of course be modelling one to one correspondance counting, so pointing at the picture/smartie etc and counting along, as that is how they will learn, it is only if you are wanting to preorder their GCSE Maths papers that you need to go to the effort of testing them properly. Meanwhile feel free to show their skills off at the next NCT coffee morning, just make sure that you are doing the 'testing'.

They may well be counting, my two year old does some one to one correspondance counting up to about 5 or 6 reliably, but haven't bothered to test if he would do it for someone impartial as that might shatter my illusions! Meanwhile I would settle for an awareness of day and night! Yawn!

just saying the words is reciting. Understanding the quantity is counting. If you child tells you how many yoghurts are left after they have eaten one then I would say they are counting. My daughter is discalculic and even at the age of 10 could not count backwards and cannot learn her timestables. She does not see the patterns in maths at all. As a toddler she could recite 1 - 10 easily but then she could sing ring a ring of roses too but didn't know what that meant either!!

It is about one to one correspondance as duracell said. If you give your DS 5 cotton reels can he count accurately as he moves each one? Then if you mix them up and put them in a different pattern can he move each one again and get to the same number? That would be counting.

My DS is 23mo. He recognises and says numerals 0-10 100% accurately, can recite numbers to 10 including taking turns with me (I say 1, he says 2 etc) and count on starting from any number within 0-10 (god, I feel like I'm writing him a school report ). He does things like reciting numbers as he goes up steps, one number per step. But, he can't count.

We were building with giant wooden blocks the other day and if it was taking too long to get a block on the tower he was going on to the next number. Also if he is using an abacus he will move two beads together and only say one number. So NOT counting.

I reccommend a good abacus and the 1st Numicon at Home kit. Just as toys though- not for 'lessons'!

My 23 month old sounds very similar - he can count up to 20 in that he can recite the words, and if he's counting (say) apples into a bag he can count them in. He can see when there are two of something (or his favourite thing to say; "one fart, no, two farts!"), but if I handed him 6 of something, he wouldn't recognise the fact.

Similarly with letters, he can recognise most letters and can "read" a few words like his name, the word mummy and car, but it's not "reading", it's just recognising those particular words.

I love this stage and watching their learning just take off.

I knew my DS could 'count' rather than just recite numbers when he sat with a bowl of blueberries and one by one moved them from one side of the plate to the other while counting them. I think he got to about 5 or 6 that time. He's now 2.8 and can reliably 'count' to 12 and less reliably 'count' to 20. He has a good go at numbers up to 30 but not accurately although he certainly understands that 30 is more than 20 (he is also a good negotiator, so if I say he can have 10 more minutes television, he will say "no, 20 more minutes", and if I say he stay in the bath until I count to 20, he will say "no, count to 30" etc). I think understanding that 5 of something is always more than 2 of something (for example) is another differentiation between reciting numbers and counting per se. If he's rushing though, he will still sometimes count one item twice (so he'll count 7 items as being 8 items if that makes sense) and vice versa, but that's the exception rather than the rule.

Thanks all, this is really informative. From what you have said here, it sounds like he is transitioning between reciting and counting - I will look into it further. V exciting!!