DD1 has been in trouble at school - need advice

[LucyLastik]

DD1 is at the end of Y3. We have had a few problems over the past week or so with her behaviour and attitude which culminated in a not so good end of year report and a meeting with the HT. DD1 transferred to the school she is now having scored 8's at the end of YR. She has continued to be a term ahead until recently, so we know she is capable, she's just not making any effort.

HT has set her lots of homework to do over the summer holidays in order for her to attempt to catch up. She has gone from being ahead, to being borderline below average. According to the HT some of her peers have made 8 points progress this year, DD1 has made 2.

Anyway, I went to collect DD1 from school yesterday and her fabulous teacher is waiting for me in the playground. DD1 bursts into tears so I know she's done something she shouldn't have. Teacher informs me that the children were making thank you cards to their TA who has been with them all year. DD1 drew a lovely picture and then proceeded to write "shut the fuck up" and "shit" on both sides of the card. She was seen by another child screwing the card up and throwing it in the bin. The other child has told the teacher (rightly so) and the card has been fished out of the bin. DD1 was asked if she had done it - she admitted she had and spent the afternoon crying. She was sent out of class for over an hour and the HT was informed (again, rightly so).

Teacher explained all of this to me and then told me that HT wanted to speak to me about it. By this point, I'm dying of embarrassment. I can't believe she could write things like that, especially at school, about another person.

DH is beside himself. He feels that DD1 has totally let herself and us down. It was possibly the most humiliating experience I have had as a result of something one of my children has done. We're not sure how to handle it now.

She came home and was sent to her room, purely because I couldn't even look at her, let alone speak to her. There are other issues with her at the moment, such as rudeness, refusing to do as she is asked, general nastiness to her brother and sister. Neither DH or I have spoken to her about it yet, because we just don't know what to say. School have been very good and HT said today would be the start of a new day, that it would all be forgotten about, but I'm sad to think that my baby girl can think like that about another person and has actually written her thoughts down in that way.

DD1 has always maintained that she doesn't like the TA but I still don't see that as an excuse. We have tried to bring our children up to be well mannered and respectful of others and then this happens, which has totally thrown us. We've gone from never seeing the HT to 2 visits in one week.

What should we do now? DH thinks sitting her down and having an adult conversation about it - is there anything wrong at home/school etc. I'm not so sure, she's only 8.

She's been punished in school, I'd leave it as a school matter. Express your disappointment and leave it.

Secondly, you might want to check on exactly what is meant in her academic progress. The EYFS scale runs only to the end of Reception (highest possible score 10), by year 3 your DD will be on NC levels, and moving 2 sub levels is the normal rate of progression. It sounds as if these two have got muddled up, and what you see as falling below average may be no such thing.

She sounds very angry about something and has maybe used this card as a way to let it out.....if that makes sense?
I'm certain others will come along with a better way of helping you but I felt compelled to post as my daughter is the same age as yours and can empathise with how you must be feeling.
We have yet to deal with anything like this ourselves but I'm not holding my breath!
Has she got a close circle of friends at school?

While she did write the card. She had no intention of giving it to the TA as she put it in the bin.

This has got to be better than her handing it over?

Difficult one but here goes...
She expressed her feelings, albeit very strong ones, but in unacceptable language.
She made a lovely picture and then defaced it.
She then tried not to make her action public, by binning the evidence.
The evidence was made public by others, outside her control.
She had previously expressed strong feelings about this person / situation.
Her behaviour at home and school is out of previous character and unacceptable to family and school staff and peers.

Wondering, just wondering, if there might be something she doesn't feel heard about? Something long lasting? Something that just has to come out?

I'd be a bit cross that she was pulled out of class for so long unless her behaviour after the card was made public was disruptive. It sounds like she was truly upset. Maybe that was why she didn't go back into the classroom. either way, I'd be thinking possible cry for help?

It sounds like you've got a good and supportive school / parent relationship and that they really want to help her be the best she can be. I'd certainly keep talking with them.

I'm sure your daughter knows that nobody appreciated her language today. She probably doesn't need it reiterated. I'd be trying to find a way she could explain what was going on. Could she help you with some jobs around the house and see if she talks during the process? It wouldn't be rewarding her for her behaviour but it would provide her with a non-confrontational conversation opportunity where she could talk about her feeling whilst you both wipe down windows or clean the car.

Good luck. You sound lovely, and loving, and if you can get to the bottom of this then the other behaviour might sort itself out too.

What Homebird said. Sounds like there's an awful lot of emotion and feeling in her actions, which doesn't just come out of nowhere and could be borne out of frustration. As it's so out of character it suggests a reaction to something. Does she feel bullied/ picked on by the TA? I know it sounds far fetched, but might the TA have used that language with your DD at some point and the writing on the card was an attempt to tell someone? Could she feel picked on by another child or isolated? What are her relationships like with her class mates? Does she interact well with them? Who is this 'other child' and what is your DD's relationship like with them? Sorry, a lot of questions i know (and i seriously doubt that the TA would have said those things) but you have to consider everything as it's out of character and sounds like she needs support and understanding. I know it's hard as you're desperately disappointed and worried. Perhaps your DH is right and it's time you talked to her about things, including her behaviour towards your other DC. She can't tell you what's wrong if you don't open the door to her in an unthreatening way. Good luck.

I really feel for you, my dd is same age and we have had quite a few turbulent months. Nothing has resulted in a situation like yours but lots of little instances that have made it quite a difficult time. I made my dd a feelings book and left it in her room. I asked her when she was getting cross or feeling like she was going to 'lash out' at someone to go write what she wanted in there. I then said once she had calmed down we could read what she had written and talk about it, if she wanted or she could tear it out and throw it in the bin and I wouldn't see it. I also told her to use the book for other feelings, happiness, jealousy, excitement so it wasn't a 'bad' book. This has helped.

This may be totally out of line so sorry if it is but could your dd be going through the early stages of puberty? My dd has started to develop breast buds and it could be a coincidence but it was around this time her mood swings started! The dr told her a change in her hormones could contribute to her behavoiur.

maybe just keep it to the point and say 'I'm disappointed with how you behaved, its the end of the year, let's draw a line under it and look forward to a fresh start in september.' Of course ask her if she wants to talk about it or if their are any other problems but it was dealt with at school and she did seem remorseful.

Agree with many others, my first thought was sadness and worry about why your DD has suddenly started behaving like this, it sounds like she has a lot of pent up anger about something and was letting it out If she is being picked on by other children and this TA hasn't been sympathetic it could explain things?

I remember about the age of 10 my academic progress went downhill fast as I was picked on for being clever. I desperately wanted to be friends with the popular sporty girls, so I just stopped trying in class.

Could it be that your DD was trying to impress the other kids by being rude and disrespectful on the card, but actually they just wanted to get her into trouble by showing it. She must be feeling a distinct lack of control about this situation.

I agree. I think you need to tell her that this is dealt with and (as long as it doesn't happen again) and as far as you are concerned it can be forgotten about.
Then try and manke some time to spend just the two of you to find out what is making her unhappy. Don't push her though. Just set up some fun time just the two of you and hope that the opportunity to talk comes up.

I think it is really important that these incidents don't cause her to start seeing herself as 'naughty'.

Thank you for all your responses.

I'll try to answer as many of your questions as I can!

DD1 moved to her current school in Y1. She went to a different school for YR. She was marked very highly at the end of the Foundation Stage as it was then. Not to sound boastful but she has always been bright and capable. Her progress continued across Y1 and Y2. HT did say that her progress points this year were ok, as expected but for a child that was consistently achieving ahead, this has been a real blow for her and us.

She is outgoing and friendly most of the time and it didn't take long for her to make friends in her new school. She has 2 close friends in her class and according to the teacher, they all like to be 'top dog' so display bully-ish tendencies towards each other. Generally though they all get on very well. Things got so bad with the three of them that the family liaison worker got involved and set them little targets, gave them rewards when they got on nicely together and she set up a 'listening ear' type place, where the girls could go and talk about their feelings wrt their friendship.

When asked about the card, DD1 said she was frustrated with her friend. Teacher says that this isn't possible as the girls were sat so far apart from each other it was impossible for them to make contact with each other.

Last night DD1 and I had some 'girls time' and we had a chat. I basically told her I was disappointed in what she had written, but that she could always tell me if things were bothering her. I've told her that all I want is for her and her siblings to be happy and I'll do whatever it takes to make that happen.

DD1 has told me that the friend broke her wristband in the playground and she was upset about it because it cost a whole £1 and I had wasted my money as it was broken. She then said she was worried I would tell her off because she had brought it into school when I had specifically told her not to. I told her that the reason I had told her not to take it to school was in case it got broken or lost, and that by choosing to do the opposite, she now has to face and experience the consequence of her actions.

I think I have managed to get her to understand that she should come to me with any problems she may have. I was really relaxed while talking to her and didn't really mention the initial issue because as has been pointed out, it was dealt with in school. As an aside, her current school recently came out of special measures so they are coming down extremely hard on behaviour which was why she spent so long out of class.

Sorry this has been so long, but I wanted to give you as much info as possible. I really like the feelings book idea, I think we will go and choose a nice book together and start implementing that. I'm yet to talk to DH about strategies, he has calmed down now but is still upset with her.

Thanks again

Sounds like you handled that perfectly Lucy, she's lucky to have you!

What about buying her a little diary or note pad for her to write down how she is feeling and then you can go through it each evening and talk about why things made her happy or sad etc ? :)

That is a good idea wheres... and one that we are going to look into today. I am going to take her into good old Wilko's and let her choose a book, that is just for her to write her feelings in. I like the idea of using it for good and bad and I think DD will like it too! She likes writing, I'm just not a fan of some of the things she has written recently!

I hope you get to the bottom of it op it really sounds like she's got alot of pent up anger and upset and being able to talk it over calmly and see what she has written and understand it's not nice etc might help get things out in the open. :)

Nicely done.

I am a teacher and firstly can I thank you on behalf of my profession for your support of your child's school. You have no idea just how much you are helping your daughter by taking a firm stance against her behaviour alongside her school. I am head of year 6 in a middle school and behaviour management is 90% of my job. I have some advice which I hope will be helpful to you.
Firstly, you need to make sure that you make it clear to your daughter that you dislike her behaviour, not her. When you talk to her about any poor behaviour you are going to need to ask her why she has chosen to behave in this way, and ensure that you express your disappointment in her choice, but ensure that you also point out all of the things about her that you love. In education we call it a compliment sandwich. An example here would be 'You are such a lovely girl, everyone has always told us so, so why did you write horrible words on a card when you knew it was wrong?' Listen to her answer then you might say something along the lines of 'We are very disappointed. That kind of behaviour is not acceptable at all' then issue a punishment (nothing too heavy - missing out on one treat rather than bed at 6 for two weeks) and ask her to do something to show that she is sorry - write a note etc. Do not force her, but if she chooses to write a note then praise her, tell her how well written it is. Hand it in to the teacher together and ensure you praise her when she has done so.

In terms of her lack of progress, you might find that she is suddenly finding the work more challenging and switching off rather than attempting something and then failing. What you need to do is show her that there is nothing wrong with getting something wrong. Some children get so scared of failing that they will do anything to get out of doing the work, including behaving poorly. I would suggest that you have a talk about how the most important thing she can do is try her best, the outcome doesn't matter. Try and find some time to sit down and do some of the summer work with her and when she gets something wrong really praise her effort. Think positive comments - 'I would have got that one wrong too, its really hard! Lets have a look and see if we can figure out where you went wrong'. When she gets something right praise her by commenting on how hard she has tried.
Think of a reward system that can be put into place at home for good behaviour and effort at school. One of the things I do is a weekly phone call. If a pupil has worked well over the course of the week I phone and tell parents and they issue a home based reward - something like buying a magazine that they like or getting to choose the film on family movie night. Try not to make it something big or expensive either - just something small. If the child is naughty at home but a star at school I ask the parents to still give the reward because the child has fulfilled their end of the deal. Behaviour at home should be challenged with a different loss of privilege. That way you always have something positive to say to your child.

They key here is to remember that no child just suddenly begins to act naughty for no reason. Behaviour is always borne out of something going on in their lives. If the work is too difficult at school she might be showing poor behaviour because that is easier than failing. She may be acting out in order to gain peer approval, what she needs to see is mummy approval is much more rewarding. She may be jealous of other siblings, particularly if one excels at something. In order to counteract this decline the most effective way is to do it with praise and love. You only need her to show a tiny improvement in a small area and if you praise her and give her enough positive attention straight away, you will soon see a complete turn. Good luck, I hope this is helpful xx

So pleased Lucy that she's managing to explain to you. Just because she wasn't physically close to the 'friends' doesn't mean they weren't on her mind. This seems like quite a big issue for her but school sound as if they are working really well with their little group. It's not an easy age for friendships and competition can easily be confused for battles in children's minds.

MamaBear may well be right about the achievement side of things too. I spent most of my secondary school not doing my best for many of the reasons she describes. Don't worry too much about it though. I only scraped through school exams but eventually, and happily, earned a PhD when the only person I had to please was myself. More important in my book is to get your DD happy. She can learn more easily then.

I hope your DD's new feelings book helps you all. Might be worth making the same available for siblings too. Everyone has feelings and we all want to express them.

She can't help but get happier if you and school are trying so hard to show her love and understanding. Think what great things she's learning from the way she's being nurtured!

My initial thought when I read your post was that she maybe didn't write those things about the TA, but just because she was angry about something and venting. Sounds about right!

In terms of her 'friendships', I would keep a really close eye on this, and if she's still having trouble progressing next year, I would move her from these friends. My ds1 has been a similar position. He has a very dominant friend who is very clever, puts him down a lot, tells him he's his boss, is constantly on and off (if he can't control ds1) which then breaks ds1's heart. Ds1's confidence took a nose dive and consequently how he learns. Your daughter may be a lot more sensitive than she seems, and if her behaviour at home is also being affected I would take a serious look at what could be causing this unhappiness/ frustration. Kids play up for a reason. It's either bad parenting (which is NOT the case, here) or that they are unhappy, which definitely sounds like the case here. Making her feel bad/ guilty about it (maybe her Dad is?) isn't going to help her self esteem either.

When adults feel angry or frustrated with others, they are often advised to do exactly what the op's dd did - write it down in a letter to get it all out, then tear up the letter...
It's just a pity that this girls feelings were made so public, although vert useful if this is the start of getting her feelings out in the open.
Op I think you're handling it well re the emotions, but you probably need to tread lightly about the holiday homework. Make sure its fun and light and not a punishment.

Can I put something out there. Not meaning to sound flippant and I'm sure I would react in the same way, but it sounds like a mountain might be being made out of a molehill.

As I child I was a high achiever but had few friends. I was a good girl with supportive parents such as yourselves. I behaved very well and was often teased about this. My peers all swore but I didn't as it was BAD. They were all very covert about their sweating - didn't do it in front of adults but I didn't really pick up on that. I was impressed by their rebellious attitude. I wanted to be one of the cool kids. So one rainy day, when we'd bd kept in the classroom during break, I wrote 'shit' in large letters on the window moisture. And promptly got caught by a teacher, who simply said 'tgat's not very nice'. I was horrified, terrified my parents would find out. My teacher let it go after that, I had my lucky escape and life went on.

All this talk about your dd supposedly having a lot of anger concerns me. Because I think it's trying to make something out of nothing and it seems everything these days has a root. Could she be trying to fit in in her new school, or introduce a bit of edge to her character (albeit that may need to be sorted out as of course you don't want her to go down that road). Someone told on her - could it be that she actually is having trouble making friends and is trying to appear cool? Or maybe she's being negatively influenced by other children with less caring parents than yourself.

You talk of being humiliated and scarcely able to talk to her. To me that seems like a massive over- reaction. I agree i'd be mortified in this situation and would speak to the school but I sincerely doubt the school will think badly of you or your dd because of this. Seriously. I used to be a teacher, we do understand kids experiment with swearing.

I hope this post comes across in the spirit it's meant to. It's just that kids do lots if bloody daft things as they test the world around you, and this smacks of the system trying to turn a relatively minor incident into an ishio. You sound bloody fantastic parents and the teachers will love you for your attitude. But I don't think it's a disaster or that your dd is on some sort of slippery slope.

Oh bloody he'll op, I missed your subsequent post where you gave more info. I'll shut up then.