Am I being unreasonable, or just plain grumpy

[davyatsea]

Hi there. Its my first time on here and I'm a dad, so double trouble. I have ds aged 7 and dd, aged 17 months. Ds is very intolerant of younger sister at times and often takes his anger out on her. ds also argues with me and doesn't like the way I ask him to do things (maybe a fault on my part, how I approach him). often rebels and trys to go through mum who will give in more than I will. this causes resentment and makes me look like the bad guy. I work away 2 nights a week and often hear things are calmer when I am away. on weekend, we had discussion on rules for wii etc and agreed; nothing electrical before breakfast and certainly not before 7am. To make things fairer, dw and I agreed to the same rule as well. Again ds is not allowed on wii, ds, or laptop after 7pm. Everyone agreed.
Yesterday, I offered breakfast to ds just after 7 as he had woken early and was watching tv. he refused. At that point, I went for shower and ds came through and climbed into out bed with mum and turned on laptop. Mum did not enforce the rule and I tried to. I had strong resistance from dw and ds stating that he had already turned it on. I made my feelings known and carried on with getting dressed.
Am I being unreasonable in wondering if there is any disclipine when I am away. I am told that ds is very helpful at times. it just seems that as a family, we cannot find rules that stick. ds expects the same priveleges as parents and cannot reason with the fact that evening is mummy/daddy time. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

It's not unreasonable to expect that agreed rules are enforced. In fact it's probably one of the few rules of parenting - be as consistent as possible. Have you asked your DW whether the agreed rules are stuck to when you are away? It is probably lonely for DW when you're away and with a small toddler your DW might have been treating DS more like an adult when you're not there. Hence some possible resentment from him when you return and want to treat him like a child (which I think is the right approach, btw).

Interesting theory zuleikad. I am told the rules are enforced, and I do know that dw does treat ds like more of an adult. What concerns me more is that we all had a discussion at the weekend so we had rules that were easy to enforce. DS stated after the laptop incident on Monday that he thought it was unfair that mummy/daddy could use the laptop etc after 7pm when he wasn't allowed.

Even this morning, he insisted on playing the ds in our bed before 7am/breakfast. I had two choices, smile sweetly and let him carry on, or enforce the rule, thus causing arguements. Problem was, he had been woken up by his sister and the morning was already hectic.

OK, so neither of you is being consistent! I think you and DW need to have a talk. If DS 'insists' on something he is not allowed you both say No and you keep saying No regardless of the fuss.

This is were the problem lies. Every time I enforce the rules, I end up with arguements. DW agrees with rules, but wont always enforce them. We have had discussion after discussion about this, but the same thing always happens and I end up being the bad guy. ds also likes to play the wii and insists on peace and quiet. If someone makes a sound in the room and he 'cannot concentrate', he kicks off. I have posted seperately about this issue.

You both need to stick to agreed rules. We have 2 DDs, 10 and 9, and they will try to play dh and I off against each other, but we are firm and always back each other up - if it is an issue we discuss it once DDs are asleep. We limit computer time to 30 mins each and DSs have been taken away for a week if they abuse their use, likewise we have walked in and switched off computer if they ignore us when we say time is up, unless they are in the middle of homework research when we consider an extension but check they are doing what they say they are doing. We don't allow computer or games before school and at weekends they only use them after breakfast and when dressed. Then we encourage them to play with other toys or to go outside, which they now prefer to do. We also limit use of computers and games before bedtime as we found that when playing games, they become very frustrated and grumpy quickly, making bedtime hell, hence the rules. It is tough sticking to them but it works in the end, at least it has for us. Good luck.

I think the agreed rules are less important than agreeing with dw that a united front is very very important.

No wonder things are calmer when you aren't there - that is how it could be all the time with you there or not, because things will be calmer when there is only one set of rules - it isn't you that is the problem it is the dual rules which are in play and which cause this whole pingpong situation with DS going to whoever it suits and conflict ensuing while resolution between the alternatives is sought in the form of a three-way argument.

Personally, I think that DW is being very short sighted if she thinks providing an alternative set of rules from you is a good idea as kids know how to exploit it and both of you will need all the authority you can get now and as DS grows up.

Any split in the camp undermines the authority of you both and can only store up trouble.

I think you need to strip back the discussion, forget about the specific rules for a minute and discuss why you think a united front from you both is absolutely critical. If you and she can agree that being on the same team and not giving ds mixed messages is the most important thing that is the first step, then if you both believe in that, then you can decide the individual rules and find a compromise you are both happy with and will both enforce, and then, only then, does the DS get to know what the rule is and finds both of you backing it up.

You have to agree to agree with each other in front of DS, despite the fact you have slightly different approaches. The fact that you have slightly different parenting styles means that some discussion will have to occur before the final mutual decision is put to the DS.

Of course you had discussed and agreed this rule you talk about, but if you aren't both seeing that a united front is key, then this re-nogotiation in the heat of the moment will keep re-occurring.

It is so undermining to have to haggle out what is or isn't OK in front of a child. because in order to have willing obedience the child must not be thinking that this rule is essentially fluid or arguable.

What does your DW think about the principle of a united front? She clearly didn't really believe in the 'no electrics before breakfast rule' even though she agreed to it. She perhaps agreed, but on the spot in the face of child resistance, doesn't actually believe enough in the higher principle of backing each other up enough to have put her foot down about it.

I think your DW is causing the disturbance but it looks like you because all is calm when you aren't there. But you can't be in a position where your DW is the only person who enforces anything your DS needs to know he has to listen to both of you. But that won't happen if he can just look to his mum to get him off the hook. :(

Sounds like your DS is enforcing his authority (i.e. you must be quiet while he is playing) while your authority is being blown in the wind. Your DW needs to see this and get is sorted asap unless she wants to wreck the relationship both she and your DS have with you!

Sorry my previous post was so waffly

I think you both need to be firmer, also what's with the making it fairer by the adults not using technology at certain times? Unless its at the table or something then why are you putting yourselves on a level with your son?

You say your DW treats him like an adult and you are trying to makes rules for all of you to be fair? Make clear that you are the adults and he is the child. If my kids complain something isn't fair I tell them they can do exactly as they choose, when they are adults. Until then it's my house, my rules.

JennerOSity. I did have to read your post a couple of times to digest it. You've given me some really good idea's. I need to think about how I approach this with dw, as I certainly dont want to pick on her. I've been accused before of being too strict harsh and am trying to find a happy medium. One thing I will always do is back dw up when she enforces the rules, but sometimes I have to prompt her. I know this can come across unfair if I have just come back from a trip away. dw and I both agree that ds gets away with too much, but dw and ds did have a lot of time together when I was away with the navy (left two years ago) and before dd came along.

Another issue is when things are banned. ds becomes very needy and insists on one to one time with either me or ds - usually not the one who has banned offending item. He does play with friends outside, so that is not an issue, but its when no-one is around, that he cannot play independantly in the house without some gadget on.

Interestingly enough, we have sought help from the school nurse as ds had been showing signs of anxienty, she referred us to the local child and adolescent mental health service. During that appointment, ds stated that there were no problems despite the arguments. We have since been referred to family therapy. I am up for this, but see the problems as staring us in the face.

It seems:

1. She is more liberally inclined than you.
2. She created a working regime in your absence which was the result of her parenting decisions made without your input.
3. You haven't quite managed to successfully reconcile these two things since your return, so each time you go away things revert to their business as usual, which is disrupted when you return and your influence comes back into play, but the 'space' in the parenting arena for that influence has not been created by you and DW jointly, more exerted by default without planning the changes she has to make to work with it.
4. Moving goal posts and lines in the sand getting re-drawn frequently, would make an adult fidgety, so no wonder it makes your young DS a bit 'needy'

Perhaps your DW subconsciously undermines you as she had things all sorted in your absence and hasn't quite adapted to being in a mutual (rather than exclusive) parenting situation (extra difficult as your styles aren't naturally matching). She may not have realised she is doing this.

I think you need to:

1. Acknowledge to her she was doing a great job alone.
2. Agree it must be difficult to adapt and accommodate another parent when before she didn't have to before, as it involves work and effort from all concerned.
3. reassure all you want is for you and her to be a team so DS knows where he stands no matter who is in the room.
4. Emphasise that the priority is to support one another and the actual rules are negotiable and you will meet halfway
5. Ask her to consider what not backing each other up wholeheartedly is doing, and if it is sustainable long term. Ask her to visualise what a joint approach could gain the family i.e harmony when you are around not just away.

Backing up mutually agreed parenting decisions should occur in your absence as well as to your face, that way DS won't feel as though the rule book changes each time you are in and out.

JennerOSity. You have given me loads of food for thought. dw is more liberally inclined than me, given our different upbringings. I agree, there's no point in drawing up a load of rules if they are difficult to enforce, or if dw genuinely forgets them (as has happened before. A united front is most important and that is what we'll sort out (once ds is in bed). We did discuss rules on the weekend, me, dw and ds and started out with what annoys each one of us first, followed by how we sort out/prevent that. This was why I was so dissapointed with what happened Monday.

Yes - very frustrating it all seemed fair and agreed then poof!

This is why I am thinking agreeing to agree (and even that takes practice) has to be in place before any rules, whatever they may be, can be enforced.

Habits are the hardest thing in the world to break, maybe DW just falls back into sole-parent mode under duress (7yo can cause duress when they want to!). Understandable in many ways, but not sustainable as it will cause division one way or another if you can't rely on total support from one another.

My DH and I agreed our table manners were lax and don't want ds to not know good table manners so are in the process of digging each other in the ribs when we slip up. Despite the fact that we both break the same rules we are both reminding each other to keep to the straight and narrow when we do. It just takes time to break habits and do things differently.

As it sounds like DW and DS have been reverting to life without you on a regular basis - those sole parent habits have not been broken at all despite it being 2 years since you left the navy.

If you can both recognise you want to make changes and help each other do it, there is no reason why you can't.

Rib digging - now there's a good idea. Rather than raise an argument in front of ds. I reckon we can crack this one!

Hope so! An open-hearted chat with DW with plenty of empathy and seeing things from both points of view is a great start. At the end of the day you are two different people, but you love each other and your DS so pulling in the same direction shouldn't be beyond the bounds of reason.

Well, first day of school holidays and all has gone well. Dw and I have had a good chat and have agreed to agree. We haven't rushed into the rules yet as we haven't had a real chance to chat properly child free. Plus I'm working away tonight. We have removed the wii for a week as an 'experiment' and dw also removed the ds until she is content to allow our son to play it. So far so good as ds is a lot calmer in the house and is allowing his creative side to come out. He has started to produce some good history work on the laptop. We'll see how this week goes, but so far so good.

Oooooo - thanks for coming back, I was wondering how things had gone. That all sounds really really positive!

Well done and hope it continues. Onwards and upwards.