When toddlers just will not co-operate...

[Mummagumma]

...by any other means, what are you supposed to do, other than use restraint? I mean at times when just giving up is not an option, such as when you have to leave the house or get to bed.

DS (2.5) in the bath this evening, refusing to have his bottom washed, and then refusing to stand up to get out - sat there making hissing noises and grumping. In the end I wouldn't wait any longer and wrapped his towel around him and scooped him out onto the bath mat, which upset him, understandably. I don't like using physical dominance to get things done, but I can't leave him in the bath indefinitely and I don't know what else I can do after trying coercion, gentle repetition of what I want to happen, distraction, trickery, soft voice, firm voice, angry voice etc etc

Same at bedtime, an issue that is a problem every night - putting his nappy on. DS will not, absolutely not, lie down to have his nappy put on. We need to get the nappy on. This has to happen; we can't just wait until he decides he's willing, as that could go on for hours. DH favours the distract with iphone technique, but I am more reticent about doing that too much. Don't know what to do.

Any ideas?

Sometimes you do just have to grab them and do stuff. However I do try and limit this technique for stuff that is non-negotiable, medicine etc.

Would he allow you to put the nappy on standing up? Or is it the nappy altogether that's he's objecting to?

I just do it. If DD won't stand up to get out of the bath, I pull the plug and hoick her out once it's drained. If she wont have her teeth brushed, I'll wrestle with her until I've cleaned them.

Noone likes it, but sometimes gentle coercion or mollycoddling gets you nowhere with a toddler.

I feel your pain! I have a very very strong willed 2.7yo and I haven't worked out the best way to deal with it, far from it!

As for nappies though - can you change to pull-ups so he can stand when having them put on? DS is a nightmare wriggler but he'll (mostly) stand holding on to me to have his pull-ups put on. Pampers PU's have Bob the Builder on them which is definitely an incentive for DS!

Good luck

If it's something that needs to be done right now then give the choice 'either you stand up or I will pick you up' then a countdown 3, 2, 1 then follow through.

If it's something that needs doing like having bottom washed, give a choice like 'do you want to wash your bottom before or after you wash your hair?' and give them some control. Then wash hair and go 'right, now it's time to wash your bottom'. My DS is far more willing to cooperate if he gets a say.

I'd second the pull ups option. DD is 20 months and started going completely mental over having nappies on. She's far more willing to put pull ups on.

We do the choices thing - it usually works. What I am stuck with are the times when giving him options fails to persuade. I offered him a choice of flannels, and he selected one. I suggested a couple of ways to stand so I could access all the bits, and he told me how he would like to position himself. Then flatly refused to carry it out! And hurled the chosen flannel across the bath.

I told him there wouldn't be time for stories if we didn't get the nappy on. And with the bath, the water was already drained - he did that bit alright, but just wouldn't get out of the empty bath!

I count down from 5 a lot these days. Again, it works most of the time. That makes it doubly frustrating when it doesn't!

DS doesn't object to the state of being nappied as such - he just behaves as if it's a hilarious game, making it impossible to get a nappy securely on. Rolls away, buries head in duvet, twists so hard to escape that keeping him there can hurt him. He won't countenance pull-ups at the moment: will only have 'lie down nappy'.

If I count to or from 5, DD joins in and still refuses to bloody cooperate

1. Rewards for specific good behaviour in problem areas. Nothing huge, things like stickers/stars/whatever they are into that has low monetary value.

1. Giving them 2 options - one of which you EXPECT them to accept.

1. Counting down with a removal of treat as a consequence.

1. Force Going ahead with what you need to do whether they are happy about it or not.

Ds is 2.0 and just would not get / care about any of the reward, consequences stuff.

When he is upset about getting a nappy on, he is upset and nothing else matters. Sometimes distraction, choices, giving him a little time works. Other times I just get it over with while telling him I understand he feels X (I don't want my nappy on!)

Breastfeeding calms every situation here but that is not something everyone is doing at this age.

I feel less bad about distracting with iphone type stuff than I feel bad about manhandling. As long as the physical times are the exceptions to the rule and it is done (outwardly) calmly on my part, I can live with it.

Maybe go with the hilarious game for a few minutes? I know some people avoid hyping them up before bed but ds seems to need a bit of rough and tumble sometimes - currently loving being squashed under pillows.

I find sometimes if I let him do something he wants and I say after this then bath or then bedtime, he will happily stand up and go into the room his own accord once he is done very very quickly, often literally after one minute. Not always though!

Treats and rewards don't impact on DS either; I'm sure they will when he is older, but right now, it's pretty ineffectual. If I said that he wouldn't be allowed to have the fruit sticker from his morning banana if he didn't do XYZ, the response would be along the lines of, "my like banana, and mummy like banana, and daddy like banana, and grandma like banana! Banana yellow. Maybe go buy banana today?". He just wouldn't get it.

He doesn't really get the connection between me saying, "if we don't get out trousers and shoes on, we aren't going to be able to go to the playground", and that the consequence really and truly will actually be not going to the playground. So that carrot isn't a goer.

We're nearing the end of feeding, and it's only been once a day for about 6 months now, except in really dire situations or illness. The oxytocin hit is great for easing my own stress as well as soothing DS, but we're unlikely to be going much longer, I think.

It doesn't matter if they don't always comply with a countdown because that's when you use force. If you do it consistently it does have an impact. I only use it for desperate situations like trying to get him in his car seat as I need to get to work.

I agree with turning things into a game if you are not pressed for time. With the nappy, I would put it on my head and ask 'is this right?' put it on his head etc until he tells me that it needs to go on his bottom, or just have a bit of tickling until I can get it on.

Getting trousers on, I sing a silly trousers song and cheerfully manhandle him into them - but because I'm singing the song and pretend to be aghast that he's not wearing trousers instead of being grim and stern he seems to like it.

Shoes - make it a race? Make like you're going to leave the house without shoes then make a big deal about silly mummy not wearing shoes and how you need shoes to get out of the house?

I think a reasonable amount of physical dominance is a good thing, provided you also balance it with letting the toddler have control some of the time.

They push the boundaries but they do like to know you are bigger stronger and in charge. Obv I'm not advocating manhandling them all the time but where things need doing and you've asked them nicely several times already ... They have to learn that sometimes they just jave to obey and that's that. I try to give control to them in other areas where there is the time and opportunity.

Def agree with options and counting down (tho my dd has turned three lately and now knows there are other options beyond those I give!!!)

I try to avoid forcing my DD, although sometimes I do.

Thing I do instead?

I try to inject some humour/role play into it e.g. I might make one/all of her bath toys might climb out of the bath and call for her.

Or talk to her to understand why she doesn't want to get out and then empathise and explain why she has to. E.G "Oh I know the bath is great fun and nice and warm but it's time for milk now. Quick, lets get dried and soon we can read a story".

She is only 2.25 but if I have the patience these methods have worked for a long time.

I know many people might think these method wouldn't work with their DCs, but to my surprise they really really do.

I'm with Bumpsadaisy. There has to be a point where if they wont do it then they have to. Far more important is consistency in approach imo.

chocolate buttons :)
Serioulsy though I tend to go along the humour / playing route and if that fails force is necessary. I am finding it all quite tough just now as I have a 10 week old to handle as well so do sometimes say you can have a chocolate button if you get in the car / be quiet while baby goes to sleep. I do realise this is wrong but have a toddler like yours who is rather hard to reason with

I used physical dominance quite unashamedly- but I did use to try to do it in a cheerful, brisk head-teacher kind of way, rather than losing my temper. Sometimes the kindest thing for everybody concerned is to get things done so you can move on: endless arguing and pleading is soul destroying for both parties.